Does Dark or Fair Skin make a person More or less Attractive ?

i am a wheatish color person some say my skin is bronez i really dont care. but i have so many white friends and they spend so much money on tanning lotions tanning spas my friend told me she would not feel sexy uless she had some color to her skin stars in hollywood befor movies and photo shoots tan there shin its the biggist thing in hollywood next to boob jobs.in bollywood fair skin people thats all you will see in bollywodd just cant understand i see so many good looking brown indian people that would be good for bollywood every one thats lite skin not cute (by the way in not indian)anyway its sad that people of color looks at lite skin as something good you are good only if you are lite and the white race spend so much money on tanning creams and tanning spas my white friend also told me a tan make her look thinner

By Jess on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:19 am:

Shy, I couldn't agree with you more. Not only in the black culture, but also my own culture, the whiter the skin, the more compliments etc, relatives will look for future wives/husbands for their children who are whiter, it doens't make sense to me either. Black and dark colour people are just as beautiful as any other colour, every person is an individual with their own personalities, character and looks, we all need to start to appreicate these differences rather than look down on one or the other.

Never take any insults or demeaners from others to heart, they are only venting out their own problems on you, rise above this rubbish.

By Carlan on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 01:48 pm:

Shy, it is my opinion that you are a well-educated person for your years and a person that is able to express herself well. I think that as time passes that you will discover that you are more confident in yourself than you do think at present. I don’t think that you suffer from low self-esteem as much as you think that you do. I think that what you are suffering from is what most of us out here are too suffering from and that thing is not being loved as much as we think we should be loved by people that we believe should love us very, very much like our mothers and our fathers. I think that the sooner we come to the realization that our mothers and our fathers are people like all other people are and since they are people they will afford us only the love and the concern that that love and that that concern is in their minds to be able to give to each one of us at any given moment. I think that mothers the world over show favoritism when it comes to their own children even though if asked they would vehemently and categorically and undeniably deny but we children know much better than that, don’t we? However, though this is true it does not mean that we are any less loved by our parents and most especially by our mothers than our siblings. Yes, Shy, your mother may actually wish that you were lighter skinned or prettier or smarter or more outgoing than is your sister but these feelings are what they are and your mother cannot help that she feels this way but the most important thing for you to remember is that though your mother thinks and does those things that hurt you that in truth she doesn’t really mean to hurt you at all. She is expressing herself humanly and she cannot help herself at present but as you will learn the day will come when you will understand her behavior and you will raise your own children having a understanding of how you may or may not be behaving toward them and you will raise your children in a better social manner than your mother did or could.

Shy, it is better for you to accept those things that you can change but do not waste your valuable time here hoping and praying and wishing for another person including your own mother to change just because you think that that change would do you a world of good. No, Shy, treat your mother with great respect and much love and do yourself that same favor and you will find that your life thus far is off to wonderful start and you will find that much great success awaits you up your magnificent road of life!

Bon voyage, Shy, and have a great time!

As to racisms of all kinds, they are well and going very strong just like they always had gone, a little slow down here and little stir up there and before you know it racism is running along just like usual up one side of the world and back down and around to the other side of the world. Racism sleeps, and hides, and lies low when times and things are good and relatively peaceful but let one small trip up by a person or persons of one race or one color or one nationality or the like difference is seen as unfairly picking on someone of another race, color, nationality, religion, or political camp and we will see the fur fly and the gloves come off and that sinister beast that we call racism will rear up its ugly head and we will brow beat, condemn, hurt, maim, destroy, and even murder each other with out much reasoning or remorse. Sure we will soon settle down and live together again in a civil manner but let just one of us get out of line or misspeak or fumble the ball than watch out because then all hell will break out once again.

I think that we can all choose to live together as best and as honorably as we can live to make our lives perpetually better and safer for all of us or we can choose to go on hating each other for whatever our reasoning is for hating others but at the end of our days by hating not much of any real good will come for us and our children, however, by trying to get along with one another every day has the best chance to lead all of us and all of our children to better lives in the future.

Blaming, casting aspersions, belittling, lying, living in the past, looking for scapegoats, woe is me thoughts and expressions are things that will always hold us down and will always make us think illogically and will always make us feel inadequate and unsure of ourselves and these kinds of things will disguise us to the point where we will not any longer be able to tell ourselves from the people we say we hate or we dislike. In other words, we will become that racist, that bigot, that underachiever, that killer that we could have sworn, not to long ago, on our loving mother’s heart that we would never become. But, when we look at our image in the mirror we see hatred and revenge and nothing at all resembling a human being staring back at us. Do we want that ugliness looking at our children and us every morning and every night? Well, do we, do you?

By COALTARONLINE on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 05:09 am:

White skinnned people resort to tanning. Why? The reason is simple white skins crumble fast because of low Keratin levels. I met a Nigerian girl who was absolutely drop dead gorgeous. Ultimately a German courted her and married her. White skinned people claim that their skins are top class. Who gave them the right to make such foolish proclamations? Obviously on being ignored and on not finding any flatterers ,narcissm is the only way out. But this can't be generalized. Some White skinned people too can be and are very gorgeous.

By Shy on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 03:33 am:

Growing up i always had a hard time because people around me--even my own mother cosidered light skin to be more prettier than dark. To this day I have never gotten over this. I am 18yrs old and because of my painful experience as being the "ugly one" compared to my lighter skin sister, I suffer with low self esteem and depression even now. I have no confidence in myself whatsoever and struggle to love and accept myself daily. i believe to eliminate this whole color complex issue that blacks are having with the whole light vs dark skin should start with the black family.If for one time, one time only one time that my mother looked at me and said for onece that "you are a beautiful person" I believe I would not suffer with the issues that i have today. it is sad to see blacks convincing themselves that having a lighter skin makes them better than the beautiful dark brother or sister beside them. it's funny how blacks cringe at the idea of socialy conforming to white culture but they turn around and adopt their views on skin color and ideal white beauty. i cannot stand to take seriously a black person who says they love the black culture and the people in it but dicriminate on someone based on the darkness of their skin. to me they are even worse then white racists. they are predjudice with their own people, the people that suffered at the hands of an oppressive society for hundreds of years to only again be hated upon by their own people. does that make any sense? I understand the whole brainwashing thing whites did to encourage blacks to hate their skin color and idolize whiteness but if blacks truly want sever the shackles that have been keeping them captives for hundreds of years, then let it at least start with our own appreciation for ourselves as equally beautiful dark and light skinned brothers and sisters.

By anonymous on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 07:04 pm:

I am quite fair and have a thing for girls who are darker. Unfortunately i have noticed girls with dark skin avoid fair guys like short guys avoid tall girls.

By b on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 12:30 am:

Whites are going to hell,they always makin race issues fuckin fags.

By Hasprida on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 11:30 pm:

This thread is more proof that the Internet is the toilet bowl of
the world. Crap on, my fellow homosapiens, crap on...

By Anonymous on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 12:04 pm:

I was reading Johns entry from feb. 6th. and I got to say I disagree with a lot of what you were saying.
First of all racism was not started by Americans. If you look further you'll discover that racism has been going on since before Christ was born, slavery too. Where do you get your information?
Second, how dare you dis on Americans? Americans come from different cultures, different races. If you are dissing on Caucasian Americans then don't EVEN try to talk to me about other people who are racist because you would be a hypocrite.
If you want to argue about people from the past who did this... individuals who were slave owners or even people who were stupid enough to believe what everyone else in society was telling them at the time, then go ahead. However I don't want to see you dising a race, or a country, maybe its leaders but not the people who are governed by it.
Third, were I'm from I get looked at weird because I'm white, I'm not even fully white...my great grandmother was Native American. Just so you know they also had to go through slavery it just isn't in a lot of our text books yet.
Where I live the majority of people are either Asian, Black, Hispanic, white, or mixed. I can walk into some stores and get stared at for being white. I love my neighborhood because there are so many different cultures. But even though there are people from different races they are racist against each other as well. I don't like racism at all but I do love learning about different cultures.
If you're wondering about American society and why there aren't as many black people on on t.v. consider this. There are more Caucasian’s in America than any other race, including African American. So the white society will dictate what is on t.v. The more black people in society the more influence they will have and the more you'll find them on the t.v. screen. Cable companies do surveys to find out what races watch their networks, if they find that most of the people are white than they will cater to that audience. I do understand that there is racism against blacks but to just get angry at people instead of the situation isn't going to help.
People have been keeping slaves forever and things are getting BETTER, they're not perfect obviously but if you are just going to show hate then YOU will be creating division. If you want to approach the situation then be smart, have a plan, read up not just on one specific issue/race or you will be blind. Read about different cultures, different races, learn how to relate to people, learn how to influence the world effectively.
Sorry if this sounded harsh in anyway I just thought I'd give my opinion.

By Anonymous on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 12:19 pm:

People have personal perferences some people like brunettes some like blondes, some like dark skin and some like light skin. Its whatever they were taught to like. Some cultures find it attractive to be heavy and some like you if you're slim. If its important to win over society by what you look like you will never win even if you're a tall thin blonde super model. You can't get everyone to like what you look like, its impossible. You can get the majority to but I think the most important thing is that ANYONE can find one person who appreciates what they look like.
Pretty is a synonym for the word beautiful which the dictionary describes as "Having qualities that delight the senses, especially the sense of sight".
So to be pretty it just takes one person who is delighted by your presence.
Dark, light, if someone tells you are ugly by not conforming to THEIR image then they are stupid jerks.

By Aja on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 08:26 pm:

Please help me !!!!!!! I REALLY REALLY want light skin because some bright clothes do not look right on DARK SKINNED PEOPL. I REALLY REALLY want to be abl to wear bright clothes without peopl looking and laughing saying" why is she wearing that she is to drak". So please help me ASAP. I would like PERMINANT light skin, but that can work in 3 weeks. PLease help and send me something ASAP. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 07:15 pm:

Very useful comments - good to read

By Dina on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 09:23 am:

That's nice and dandy but....

do you love yourself? Do you love yourself enough that for some reason if you turned another colour, and didn't get the attention from others, you would still feel great?

The world can be a very shallow place, to put so much importance not only on the colour of our skins, but on beauty itself, is surely not right. Yea sure everyone wants to look good, but you can look good by being healthy, happy and contented, and that shows on your face and the way you carry yourself.

People who are born beautiful and have never had to earn compliments or attention can become very shallow, surely there has to be more to life than trying to gain other peoples acceptance through your looks?

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 12:13 am:

i think i look better than a lighter skin person because i very pretty to be dark and i get alot of attention than my friends thats mostly light skin i guess because my very light brown eyes. boys love me!!!!!!!!!!!!

By jessie on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 06:04 pm:

im whiitteee......

By MR BROWN MAN (62.252.96.12) on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 05:48 pm:

i think that peoples brains prefer certain colours i.e white over black or light over dark, and i think that every1 shud be treated equaly - we are all human, but when it comes to who is attractive our brains automatically go LIGHT WHITE bl bla bla. it seems to me that its encoded in to ur brains or somet. try to imagine a white or black atrative person then imagine them in a diferent colour and you will see. however some peoples brains prefere DARk but then agin it is how and where u were brought up. i am brown and darker then most of my family or this is atleast how I see MYSELF rember you could think your ugly but some1 else may think ur gorgeous.i think the only thing SKIN colour afects is how attractive you are cos if you had a clone with a diferent skin colour they would look more/less attractive to the same person even though the features are the same. in conclusion i think what sort of person you are i.e personality is what realy matters, and as for skin colour you can like which ever one you want as long as you arent racist.
rember 1 race only - HUMAN RACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By annonymous (68.83.135.4) on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 08:38 pm:

the darker the berry the sweeter the juice!!!!!


...for the dark skinned girls

By Alexei99 (69.209.235.96) on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 07:33 pm:

John said:

"When lightskin blacks started to appear amongst the slaves it was because of black women in slavery sought to mix with white men to have babies that could escape the hardness of slavery. In all conquered societies people assimillate I dont know why people think blacks would be any different. So black women seduced white men in hopes of better treatment and had babies that were lightier than there offsprings by their black men.These women would teach their light offspring that they were better than their other children who were darker. I know this is hard to swallow but we did it ourselves in our low self esteem and hopelessness that this was the only way out for us."

John , you have jumped the gun by insinuating that Black female slaves seduced their white male masters wanting lighter babies, so they wouldn't be mistreated. You say they did this as a means of joining the conquerers.

Sure, there are the Uncle Toms and Aunt Thomasinas out there who were manumitted to view the world through the eyes of their oppressors and turned on their own but you made a very broad statement about Black slave women in general.

I don't think slave women would want to have children growing up in such an oppressive condition anywhere.

You fail to mention the fact that Blacks were brainwashed and intentionally disconnected from their culture and history.

You also fail to mention that WHITE MALE SLAVE OWNERS AND MASTERS raped Black female slaves or carried on secret relationships with them.

Black women were hardly in any position to seduce a white male. But white men were in the position to coerce Black women and Black women would dare not resist--otherwise they could lose their lives or their childre. Some Black women who were free could run the risk of being sold off into slavery and silenced.

Some white male slave masters were known to keep mulatto female concubines or had relationships with them.

By John (131.96.14.49) on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 07:38 pm:

Well this thread was started by keisha (66.158.35.2)wanting to know why: And I'm doing my project on why dark-skinned women arent featured in the music videos as much as light-skinned girls are. And when I usually see these hip hip videos the main girl is almost never dark chocolate and I'm want to know why?


Well Keisha America and pretty much of the world has made us into a Black and White planet. Darkskin people and paleskin people are the two extremes on the planet with everybody who are muluatoes falling in the middle. Because whites are in power and people are like sheep that follow the bark of the sherpard dog so everybody mostly wants to be white. There was a time in history where Darkskin was favored when Axum, Eygpyt, and Kemetic ruled the world. There is no superior color for pigmentation is not a indicator of race. Meaning a darkskin black person can have more white ancestors than a white person and a white can have more darkskin ancestors. Humans have been mixing for thousands of years and genes have been passed on everywhere. So we all are essentially the same underneath the skin we all are African, home of all human beings.

Now coming to Amerikkka like Eddie Murphy we find Amerikkka society infused with racism which is an Amerikkkan invention. White slavers had to teach that blacks were inferior in order to get the whites to treat us bad so that they would not lose control over the slaves. When lightskin blacks started to appear amongst the slaves it was because of black women in slavery sought to mix with white men to have babies that could escape the hardness of slavery. In all conquered societies people assimillate I dont know why people think blacks would be any different. The easiest way to move up would be to mix with the conquer. So black women seduced white men in hopes of better treatment and had babies that were lightier than there offsprings by their black men.These women would teach their light offspring that they were better than their other children who were darker. I know this is hard to swallow but we did it ourselves in our low self esteem and hopelessness that this was the only way out for us.

Ocourse this created animosity amongst the siblings and when the slavermasters saw this they began to manupalate it. They put the lightskin in the house and kept the darkskin in the field and treated the lightskin better often giving them education and freedom. As a result lightskin blacks have been ahead of darkskin blacks in education, income and quality of life. But remember many black women envisioned this but they didnt envision the great divide that would come about and the manupalation of the white slave master using complexions.

However the entertainment media in which you speak uses our social selection against us. Lightskin women mistreated by darkskin women seek out darkskin men to make themselves appear more black. Darkskin men feeling less then seek out lightskin women and white women because as men they want these women for they are symbols of power. The white media wants to sell products and goods to the black communitity so they used the social selection against us. So lightskin women and darkskin men are used as tools for selling products and ideas.

First the lightskin black woman is takened as a symbol of beauty and made into a sex object to sell products such as songs, clothes, concepts, cars, jeweler to blacks. Lightskin women are said to be more beautiful and have nicer attitudes than the darker sisters.

Second the darkskin black men are used as sex objects to women who are elluded by the mysterious myth of African men have large penises and great in the bedroom than all other men. And they are supposed to be greater endowed atlethically than all others males including lightkskin black men.

Now one only has to look into society and see countless examples of this preluding strategy which is a marketing tool that keeps us locked into a false belief system. Whites use it and blacks use it as well when their is something to be gain by supporting these crazy prejudices.

The adverse affect of lightskin women being considered more attractive and all the favortism they get creates envy in darkskin women. Darkskin women are overlooked and labeled as having bad attitudes. So lightskin women and darkskin women dont get along and neither do white women and darkskin women. Darkskin sisters have more clashes with other women including themselves and dont form many sister to sister relationships that women are known for.


The adverse affect of darkskin men being considered sex gods and athlethic gods harms their maturity as men. Most darkskin men have losts babies out of wedlock by many different women, they are takened care of by women and never mature as men until late in life. They also have many clashes with other men out of envy because of their advantage with women or because they're crazy belief that they are the only bull in the stable.

This is just some of the information I can share with you Kiesha. Ask again I have many more thoughts on this.

By keisha (66.158.35.2) on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 07:47 pm:

I'm doing a project for class and I'm a dark-skinned girl and I'm 17. And I'm doing my project on why dark-skinned women arent featured in the music videos as much as light-skinned girls are. And when I usually see these hip hip videos the main girl is almost never dark chocolate and I'm want to know why?

By Negrita (68.76.81.195) on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 04:05 am:

This is a pathetic and sad topic. Now I understand why Americans are so far behind in so many areas. Instead of focusing on the physical why not try focusing on what really matters like the fact that many Americans have fallen behind in math, SPELLING (the proof is in the pudding-note the spelling errors in many of these messages) reading, etc. I guess what hurts me the most is that all of the ignorant and horrible statements I've read in this post are clearly a result of miseducation, lack of travel, brainwashing through television and flat out stupidity about the history of the United States. They say you are what you eat-well its high time certain people change their "social diets" and start asking themselves some logical questions like will my skin color act as a cape and save me from a speeding bullet? Oh yeah...I am pale as powder so I guess I'll just be pale and all of my bills will magically be paid- because I am pale. Oh gee check it out I am dark and beautiful, so I will be the only beautiful dark person on the planet -there will be no others. Or how about this one-I am not light or dark-I am mocha and being mocha will pay my mortgage and pay off my car! Oh goodness did you see that peanut butter colored person-they just received and honorary doctorate degree because they are not pale as powder or exotically ebony-so now they have a doctorate degree-my point is come off of the dumb stuff. Beauty fades but being a PERSON OF SUBSTANCE TRULY HAS A LASTING EFFECT AND CAN BE VERY BEAUTIFUL.

By Derik (65.138.95.158) on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 04:15 am:

Alias,

I don't know you, but you asked a very good question. You must be in your early or mid-20s as far as age is concerned (please correct me if I'm wrong), but it seems to me that these guys that are turning you down AND refuse to get to know you because you have dark skin, they must be either very immature or they're intimidated by your beauty.

From my experience, beautiful women either attract guys, or intimidate guys because those particular men think they're not rich enough, cool enough, or just don't have the confidence to believe that a woman that beautiful would be interested in them.

If you're a good-looking woman, any guy of any race, desi guys included, will get to know you. I'm sure you'll find that guy someday. And he's gonna be very lucky to have you.

By Alias (155.52.21.195) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 05:59 pm:

Thanks boston. Love that sweet and simple statement but you still didn't answer the question.

By boston (24.218.130.48) on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 03:44 am:

the darker you are the more ugly u r

By Anonymous (216.147.152.238) on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 08:07 pm:

box gpha 708

By Alias (155.52.21.195) on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 09:07 pm:

I am considered dark skinned in indian society. My whole life, I have been told not to go in the sun, swim, etc so I do not get any darker. I have been told a thousand times, "you would be so beautiful, if only you were lighter" or "you have the most perfect face and features. Too bad you are not lighter". I have even been told by a strictly platonic indian guy friend "I'd never marry you because then, our kids would be dark and nasty but you do have sharp features". I never even asked for his opinion or was ever interested in him in a romantic way. Not to be arrogant in any way but I have been able to attract many highly attractive White, African American, Hispanic and even Asian men (pardon me if this is ignorant but a majority of time, I see most Asian men dating Asian women). I even dated a Hilfiger model. But, it totally irritates me that indian men apparantly do not find me attractive just because of my skin color. It's funny, I just went to a club a couple of days ago and although the club was about 80% indian people, the very few white, asian and black men there were the only ones who offered to buy me drinks or wanted to get to know me. The very rare indian man that is attracted to me, it is usually because he thinks I look Dominican or Venezuelan. Personally, it all makes no sense to me. And what's even more amusing is that I get criticism from indian guys for dating someone who is not of my race. And I am thinking..ok, so none of you indian guys like me but then, I cannot be with a very attractive, sweet man who totally appreciates my beauty???? It's also ironic that many indian men would find Halle Berry or Tyra Banks attractive, yet my skin complexion is similar to theirs and they have a major problem with my color (granted I am nowhere as gorgeous as these ladies)...So, my question is to indian men. Why get upset when you see women of your race with other men when you can't appreciate your women? Why do I want to be with some indian guy who would think he is doing me a favor by being with me because I am dark when I can be with a non indian man that looks at me each day with respect and admiration in his eyes?

By candy (152.163.100.11) on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 06:30 pm:

im a proud dark skinned girl i just dont understand why they have all these lightskinned mixed looking girls in music video they need to represent a little dark skinned people darkskinned people can be pretty too....it just makes me so mad i wuz thinkin about bleaching my skin...im starting to really hate myself my skin color

By lucylue (152.163.100.11) on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 11:30 pm:

foremost im proud of being lightskin so darkskins should be proud of them selves to......all these issues about light vs dark is sending more messages that light skins are better then darkskins....its making the darkskins feel bad about themselves even more with low self-esteem.....and its making lightskins feel even more that there the shyt..

By red (152.163.100.11) on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 11:22 pm:

lightskinned people is alot better than dark skinned people in many ways....for one inless your blind light skinned people happens to look better...why lie and say light dark it dont matter...well of course it dont matter but everythin matters in life....so we cant help it if we look better....im not saying all darkskinned are ugly compared to lightskins but most.....most so all dees darkskin ladies need to stop hatin on lightskinned ladies like me of course im lightskinned cuz im mixed....and start hatin your self with yalls nasty attitudes..

By charlene (82.35.101.132) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 08:30 pm:

I think that dark skin is just as beautiful as light skin.I never used to think that before, because all I used to see were white poeple on Tv, in soaps, and white role models. I think that how we perceiive colour changes within time, just like fasion, or hairstyles.
eg afro was in style in the 70's, but who would be seen dead in an afro now, well up until a few years ago anyway.
As times change, our perceptions and prefernaces will too. Its justt the way it is. And just for those people who go on to say that black is ugly, look at Usher, Tyreese, Montel Jordan, Jamelia, Ashanti, and da boys from B2K just to name a few!

By aladdin50313 (63.224.187.236) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 07:53 am:

Asteroid, you repeated a question from an earlier post about applications asking what ethnic group you are and perceived it as a racist thing. To everybody that hasnt figured it out yet... have you heard about "equal opportunity employer"? it says that a certain percentage of each race must be hired to satisfy equality.
hope that clears up a lot of misconceptions

By aladdin50313 (63.224.187.236) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 07:18 am:

Carlan is clearly a person who has to get his 2 cents in on any comments that are made that seem agressive. A person may refer to a black as a nigger possibly because of continued bad experiences with the black race and or has read countless statistics about the percentage of black crime as a ratio to white/other race crime. Thats a totally different issue to delve into but my point is that Carlan is being just as judgemental to Mfree as Mfree is to "niggers". Thats the pot calling the kettle black. My opinion is that facial structure is what truly makes one beautiful to anothers eye. Its all like they say..."in the eye of the beholder".
nuff said

By Krishna (198.81.26.11) on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 05:23 pm:

I just want to say that skin color does matter to some people but to others it doesn't. Now it's difficult to understand someone else's point of view when they want to be light skinned or dark skinned. It's their opinion if they like dark skin better or light. The important thing to remember is that do not insult anyone who you think is unattractive because one day you may become unattractive to yourself and then realise it. (This means physically and mentally).

By RedBoneNVA (205.188.116.16) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 03:34 pm:

First of all, I'm lightskin and i get a lot of stares but I'm not going to write a story about that. But I know alot of dark skin girl that a beautiful. Really I dont care what my skin color is. I know alot of guys say they want lightskin girls, but i know alot of L.S girls who think they are the shyt cuz it has gone to there head the lightskin is better & they think they can have any body they want. Thats no true!! B/c if they do that most gouys think they will be easy & then they will want to be the first to hit that!

By red-bone (205.188.116.16) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 06:44 pm:

i truly honestly believe and see and wut i hear that light skin girls are alot prettier than dark skin girls.......okay not all but most......most, are and is true.......ima lightskin half japanese and half black girl and proud of it.....and i have alot of stare and dark skin girl are always tryin to try me cuz their jeoulous........and every time i ask boys which one they perfer they always say the lightskin.... i mean why not......and my best friend is a dark skin girl and she's pretty to and im pretty to but when were at da mall they always try to talk to me first......and sometime they tell me they wanted to talk to me and not my friend cuz im lightskin.....thats sad but thats how it is in the society today.......to prove some look at those music hip-hop video.....people perfer light skins....

By 1 (81.195.172.13) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 11:59 pm:

> and their ladies are sweeter than wite bitches. --> RACISM AND IS NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT. WHEN WHITES CALL YOU NIGA YOU DO NOT LIKE THIS. I AMD WHITE AND I DO NOT LIKE YOU CALL WHITE LADIES 'BITCHES'. MFREE IS RIGHT, YOUR IQ IS REALLY < 70.

By 1 (81.195.172.13) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 11:55 pm:

> black are stronger than the wite &#10;&#10;RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By brisident shakur (80.88.143.15) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 02:52 pm:

black are stronger than the wite
and their ladies are sweeter than wite bitches
at sports side they are active than wite


I'll be black for ever

By big dog (80.88.143.15) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 02:48 pm:

i beleave that the dark ladies are sweeter than wite girls

By Joe (80.97.5.212) on Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 12:57 am:

My dad is white, my mom is tanned and im in between... Im not racist and i dont hate any1 for their color but im not happy with my color, its really wierd, if i stay out long it comes like bronze brown, durin winter or when im not outside often its like bronze whittish thing and i dont know im not happy with it. i got many friends from many races brown, asian, white and black and i dont hate any race but i dont know why i wanna have lighter skin.

By ? (195.93.32.9) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 10:08 pm:

Hi, i'm Indian and white but come from the Caribean and live in England and in my opinion it shouldn't matter what colour you are.I've grown up with all sorts of race's and i i have seen very beautiful black, Indian, Chinese, white, etc.. girls and men. For all you people that say black people are plane ugly that aint true just look at Beyonce, halle Berry arn't they the most atractive people and all u racists are idiots!

By stacy (81.128.169.223) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 07:21 am:

Hi mfree you are clearly stating that blacks have no inteligence or very low iq i am living with a 34y old bookmaker who cannot change abulb without breaking or cutting himself i am black 23 yrs old i fix this man washing machine his cd player that was not working tuned in his new tv which he was going to pay someone to do and still teaching him how to use his own computer when things that he claims are too difficult are just minor to me things that he takes the whole day to do even flying in tandroms i take just a few minutes to adjust my dad is a technician my uncles are detectives and lawyers my aunt is a lawyer my mom is a fashion designer one of my brother is a juncky the other two are doing very well in college my elder sister is a police the other a house wife we are all black the man that is my house mate is white i am young black female and i am very gorgeous i am not insecure and i feel sorry for people who cannot find logics without looking at colour.

By stacy (81.128.169.223) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 06:56 am:

Hi carlan martha andy

By Anonymous (131.183.111.161) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 04:57 am:

First of all, I am dark skin and very attractive. It doesnt matter what complexion you are. Some light skin individuals are not attractive and some dark skin individuals are not attractive. Color doesn't mean anything. People need to understand that being different is what make this world. If everyone looked the same, people wouldn't get along. I don't believe anyone want a person to look exactly like them. And for the lighter skin people who have a problem with darker skin people, ask yourself why and what is the person doing to you. Not a dam# thing so worry about yourself and get over it.

By Carlan (152.163.252.36) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 09:31 pm:

Nora, I like what you say here. Your thinking on this subject is quite reasonable. As you point out role models are an important key to our will to conduct ourselves well in most situations. Role models must be well chosen and that is where some very basic problems arise. Beautiful women and men of any certain race can be “good” role models, however, there is an equal chance that they may not be that good of a choice, as you well know. Beauty of any kind is short-lived and mostly superficial and has little if anything to do with that person’s mind and that person’s thinking. I think it is prudent to admire beauty wherever it exists but as a useful element of modeling our minds with I would put beauty on the bottom of the list. There are much better models out there than those beauty pageant winners, those pro sports stars, those highlighted movie and TV personalities, or those too many to name dull witted comedians to look to for wonderful role models to identify with. Look in the history books, in books of biographies, in the library, look in the books of faith and wisdom, and be sure to look very closely to all that surrounds you. Most importantly look in to all of those nooks and crannies for those people of your own background that you would most want for your own children to use as role models. They are out there! You just have to seek them out.

I have found that there exist too many people that live in the past or that live in their own self generated prison. People that will not start today (this moment) to allow themselves to forget the past and move on or that will not take the first step in turning the key to their own sanctimonious prison cell and go out and make a way for them to be all that they and their people can be. It’s really too bad, you know because the worse kind of oppression is self-oppression.

Make a solemn commitment to your self and to your great race to sacrifice your own time and your own monies and your own energy now to assure a much better world for your people in the far distant future. Work hard and work diligently for your people thousands of years from now so that they will not have to fill their minds with hatred and mistrust and those horrific crimes done to them in the not to distant past.

Nora, I live my life always seeking for a better life for my future generations with the always present hope that what I give and what I sacrifice and what I pay and what I grieve for today that my future relatives will not have to trudge through that same mud and debris that I had to struggle with. I live to try to guide people very much like you to seek the same kinds of things for your future relatives.

It is very hard for me not to lose patience and strike out at the people who ignore me, who trespass on my rights, who call me bad names, who lie to me, who scare me, and who threaten me and my family’s security, but I don’t strike out because striking out only increases all of their powers over me. Instead, I go along day after day thinking! Yes, you heard me, thinking is what I do and I’ve learned to do it well most of the time. I found that thinking out and thinking about and thinking in and thinking around gives me the necessary time to think about what I am going to do and what I am going to say.

Thinking, always, thinking!

By Nora (62.30.188.122) on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 07:40 am:

Carlan, I agree with what you are saying. It's quite depressing that so many people feel they have to lie to themselves and to those around them to try to somehow force them to believe that their skin colour, features, or shape is also attractive and of equal worth. But perhaps it is just another way to respond to how our present preferences were drilled into us, through the media, through our parents or through our friends. Perhaps that is why many feel they do need to take pride in their own beauty, with the belief that in time, this will make others believe - For in any case, our view of the world is in large shaped by what others think.

Nevertheless, Carlan I think it would be quite daunting for you to ask people to admit they are not the prettiest, or the most intelligent etc. It is true that this will work to benefit some. But I said in my previous letter, many are forced to believe they are more ugly, or inferior. For some, the person at the other end of the mirror may be a pleasing sight, but because of others comments, gradually they start losing confidence. This doesn’t mean that their beauty, intelligence etc does not exist in their own minds, but that their self-confidence has merely been repressed. I think that with more role models of dark skinned people, people find easier to challenge degrading comments, as perhaps the beauty/fame of the models will act as reassurance of their own beauty. This may seem very clear cut, but I do think that this a step forward. From experience, I do find that having models that you can relate in terms of skin colour or background, who have achieved success does boost ones own self-image. But perhaps my experience is not universal.

By Carlan (64.12.96.14) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 10:00 pm:

I think that, Nora, you are speaking for a lot of people located all over the world. I think that what you described to us of your childhood describes most childhoods of most of us, too. I think that what you disliked or hated about your upbringing most people everywhere think or thought that same way. I think only the factors involved for each of us was different, is all. Factors pertaining but not exclusive to color of skin, bone structure, eye color, height or weight differences, financial income, social status, pitch of voice, age, intelligence, ability to perform tasks, education, family ties, and religious affiliations are some that I can name. If a person plugs in any combination of these factors, they will come up with the same feelings about their life and how they see the world that you did. They will hold deep grudges, they will alienate their people from others, they will put down those that cannot help but be what they are, they will exclude the very people that are very much just like themselves but wear a different suit of clothes.

I think that to say that all the people like us are beautiful is a very nice sentiment to express, but even when we say such words we know in our minds that it just isn’t so. We can say that we are prettier, smarter, better behaved, and much worthier than are other people but we are not so naïve as to really believe such impossibilities. We know we are lacking in many things. We also know we have a lot to offer. We know we want to be thought of by others as coming from a superior race, a superior family, a superior country, a superior religion, and a superior social stratum. We know that we are “good” people and come from “good” stock. We know that we want to be accepted everywhere we go. We know that we want to be respected everywhere we go, too. And, I think, in order, to accomplish what it is that we all want is to first rid ourselves of lying to ourselves and of deceiving ourselves into thinking and saying words that we cannot even make ourselves deep in our minds believe. We must face the universal nemesis which is we are not the prettiest, we are not the most intelligent, we are not the most capable, we are not the wisest, and we are not the best at doing many things. After admitting these facts to ourselves I think it clears the mind of all confusing debris and allows us to move forward and upward at once. We can become that person that people who we so wish that we could become if our goals are those goals made up of trust, of integrity, of truthfulness, and of morality. We must first trust in ourselves before we can commit to trusting in others, and we cannot lie especially to ourselves and make those lies believable to ourselves or to those around us.

Begin, today, to become that person that you truly want to be!

By Graeme (211.29.136.12) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:27 pm:

I am not Indian so I hope I am more unbiased about skin colour. I am European - a southerner, so I am not as light as those northerners eg Danes, Germans etc. Personally growing up amongst the pink skins I naturally find that colour more attractive than the dull white or olive tones of southerners. I find Indians easy to pick out even when light skinned. It's your features. I find your features pleasing though not particularly attractive. However, you are light years ahead of those ugly fat headed Slav types, Russian, Poles etc. After skin colour (pink) I find features are what attract me. A long face, thin nose, moderately everted lips, round eyes - basic Caucasoid features most attractive. The least attractive features are, hope not to offend, west negro and pygmy features and East Asian features. Lots of white men find East Asian very attractive - I don't. Indians are mostly attractive in as much as they correspond to Europeans no matter whether light or dark. I do believe that there is a strong colour prejudice in India. Fair skinned is better than dark skinned. Think about it this way; to non Indians all Indians look very much alike dark or fair, Brahmin or Dalit, Punjabi or Madrasi... What we foreigners know is this that the ancient civilizations of the Indus valley were the handiwork of dark skinned intelligent people not the lighter skinned savages known to us as the Aryan.

By mysticsdream (202.161.102.90) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 01:21 pm:

Nora, good on you for identifying self... and apart from your parents telling you that you are inferior, what point is it I am missing... Just be yourself whatever nationality or skin colour. People who know you, and whom you treat as an equal will in all likelihood treat you as one. If not.. then I am wrong... been wrong before. In any case good for you to stand up to the challenge.

By Nora (62.30.189.207) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 05:35 am:

I am the person who wrote 'anonymous' in my previous message. I am now revealing my name so that it is easier for people to reply to me. But mysticdreams, I find it sad that you have remarked on the most insignificant parts about what I had just said. It simply does not matter what phrases I use, or what I call myself. By picking up on such trivial parts, you are avoiding the entire issue. I think it would be helpful if you just stuck to the issue at hand next time

By mysticsdream (202.161.100.249) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 01:44 pm:

Anyone who wants to be taken seriously.. should not hide behind 'anonymous'. As for language of superiority and inferiority, it betrays a frame of mind... which is not healthy. Its hard to be credible whatever your skin colour if you are using this language.

By anonymous (62.30.189.1) on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 07:41 am:

I personally believe that we have been brainwashed by the ruling white society. You have to ask yourself, do you really think we were born to think of light skin as beautiful and dark skin as ugly? I don't. I have lived in a society and a family which bombards me with ideas that being light and looking 'white' is the best, and I know how that can affect a person. As you grow up, you unconsciously pick on these commemnts and internalise them.You start believing in these comments yourself, it is as if you have to in order to fit in with your family, to be part of them, to be accepted. You reach a stage where you start believing that your preferences are natural and that looking 'white' or 'light' is the best. I know how difficult it is to override these feelings, these ideas that have been drilled in our heads. What we now need to do is proclaim our own beaty, we have to try to get out of this trap, and maybe some day our children will not have to expereience these comments and ideas which degrade other and make some others superior. Maybe we will then have a society where darker people will not have to feel inferior.

By nive (194.171.200.226) on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 11:13 pm:

sorry:
mlamkaddem@hotmail.com

nive

By nive (194.171.200.226) on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 11:09 pm:

Dear Kayla,

My email adres has changed: mlamkaddem@hotmaill.com
Hope to hear from you soon...

Nive

By George (198.64.15.14) on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 02:15 am:

You girls who say us Caucasian men like dark girls, well I have news for you: “You’re stupid”. Hell no! I don’t like you ugly skanks. Get a clue; people are attracted to people of their own kind. Anybody who’s attracted to other races is plane out “ugly-blind.”

By Anonymous (66.90.195.222) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 09:40 am:

After reading just a few messages of this site has left me at a loss. It only seems to me that most on here will only be happy when the White Race is dead.
So, what is stopping you?
Just kill us and move on like you want to do in the first place.

By kayla (67.30.235.105) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 09:42 am:

Nive

I tried to email you but your address does not work so do you have another one?

By colin (213.48.249.84) on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 06:53 am:

As a male I like all women what ever colour or race they are because everyone is the same and only fears prevent us from loving each other ie "what will this and that say if I go out with different colour person"
"will my race die out," "what colour will my children be ","what will my parents say," as you can see these are fears and if you are ruled by fears then you cannot love freely so just love who ever you meet in this short life
for who knows you just might reject your true love

By Mike on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 05:02 am:

I personally I am attracted to dark skinned women since my whole family is light skinned. I just feel like I am light enough and want some one darker for a change.Plus I want little brown kids that wont get picked on like dark and light kids like I was.

By Carlan on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 08:41 pm:

Madjobless, I don’t believe that this is the appropriate discussion board for your statements but since you entered it here I will give you my thinking on this subject.

I think that many people innocently or naively believe that because there does exist laws, regulations, and standards governing and protecting the rights of all workers in the workplace that they should assume that they would be protected and given justice when their time comes to be protected against illegal or unjust conduct in the workplace. In almost all cases of these types (harassment, discrimination, unfair treatment of some sort) most will be dealt with promptly and justly and prudently, however, in many other similar situations the person being unjustly treated will learn that there will be sometimes severe consequences applied to them, personally, on and off the workplace grounds.

Often times, most of us will and do find ourselves working with and for people and over people that we know are people that are racist, bigots, liars, and cheats, and others that discriminate against others for various reasons, and still others that harass people because they know they can get away with it. Other times, many of us would like not to have to be around these kinds of people, but in order to keep our jobs, or to keep in good standing with our other fellow workers, or to keep peace, or to keep our own good “team worker” persona intact, we keep quiet, we ignore, we abstain, and we allow these deplorable and unjust conditions to go on and we, too, become part of the bad situation.

I’m afraid that in certain places of work, and in certain positions where we may find ourselves being discriminated against for whatever reason, being subjected to whatever kind of harassment, and being treated very unjustly is part of the territory and we must and we do accept it. I think it is prudent that we must bide our time wisely and most of all consider the consequences of our foreseeable actions that we think we may be thinking of taking against these offensive people and their crimes. Do not be too hasty! Think a lot before you act and do not be pushed into taking action by some friend or coworker that is not going to put their own head on the chopping block with you.

Don’t be so naïve as to think that your just or retaliatory actions will not come without an opposing retaliatory reaction from those people located all around you, even those who seem to be or say that they are on your side. They may have their own hidden agenda.

You may feel that not to take action is something you cannot live with and in that case take the appropriate action, but there could exist a consequence or consequences that you will find not to your liking and at the end of the uncomfortable process you may find that your best interest was not served at all.

Oh, and one other comment: just because you hear and see these same situations as yours working out well for people on television or in the movies does not mean that all will turn out well for you in your real life situation.

By madjobless on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 06:51 am:

i was fired by the company that i was working for because this guy he keep on talking and tring to grab on me and i told my bosses they didnt do anything until he tried it again and i let him have a peace of my mind but the thing is they fired him too but they also fired me dont think that was right.

By Anonymous on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 07:41 am:

Honestly I think some white people are nice looking except for the pink ones

By Silvermoon on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 01:22 pm:

Every Human is naturlly beautiful. Aficans are beautiful because of their brown to dark to often somtimes blue-black skin color, Asians are beautiful because of characteristic slanted eyes , Whites are beautiful because their vibrant colored hair, East Indians are beautiful because of their sometimes jet black beautiful hair and deep skintone. I happen to be an Afican Ameican women with dark skin and somewhat thin features and can see the beauty in all races and in all features to miss the sightest detail of God's creation and not apreciate it would ignore all of our creators efforts to paint a vivid picture called Earth.

By Dee on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 02:02 pm:

i had a really bad experience. I fell in love with a beautiful tall dark chocolate man. felt like Ive known him all my life when we met. gone out of my way to show him that I was for him, no matter what the circumstance(he's in Iraq) called myself waiting for him not even looking at another man. On a three way phone call I found out that he was still talking to his so called ex girlfriend, who is an african of mixed ancestry. who also told his best friend's wife she only wanted him for the money and sex. Now please tell me, Id been waiting for him for 5 months, email and letters everyday since he's been gone, helping out his Mom here at home, sending him care packages even when I did'nt have much money...and that's the best he could come up with?? I have always thought I was miss priss, always told how pretty I am by alot of people. now I feel ugly, and inferior. How could someone I trusted and loved so hard...be so superficial? I figure it must be me, because Im dark skinned she's not. His Mom showed me a picture the girl had sent her, and she's not all that cute, so that must be it.....how horrible.

By Albert Sidney on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:02 am:

Hey - I just ran across this forum and just had to react. I am a male caucasian - a typical aryan - tall thin - germanic looking. I was blonde as a kid and teenager but my hair has darkened over the years -actually now graying some. I say this to contrast with my preference in women looks. I have two categories of looks. One of those is the category of beautiful. This would include women most of society would call beautiful - to me, many times too perfect.

The other category is what I call attractive. These women speak to me on a level other than just physical appearance. The women that attract me in this manner are women from the areas near India and Pakistan, etc.
They attract me on an erotic of sexual level more than any others.

By abrotha on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:30 pm:

Well to be honest, eveyone has a group of people they are generally attrated to as a people. Me, most girls that I am most often attrated to are bi or tri-racial wome or Tanned and light brown. Beyonce and Halle Berry for example. How many of you guys think It just happens to be that way. However, there are exceptions to as a whole a people I find unattrative. I in general I dont' find dark sinned women attrative, but there are numerically many attraive dark women.

My mother, is considered drop dead gorgeous by, friends, families, women and men of all hues rather they like her or not. No matter where she goes she gets recongnized for it. In North America, South America, Germany, England, France, and many Middle Eastern countries strangers have actually came up to tell her how gorgeous she is... and she is a dark skinned woman. 47. Doesn't wear anything but lipstick in terms of make up.

I don't find albinos attrative. However I have seen a very beautiful albino woman in a mall one day.

I have also seen very un-attrative bi-racial women. So nothing is absolute.

I am dark skinned now. Since the age of 18 my skin has changed from a mid-brown to a deep brown. (in the face area). I am 20 right now. It is true that I am much more attrative as a lighter person to myself and everyone else I have spoken too about it that. (Shows up better in pictures too). I still get plenty of comments of good looks now. But when I was lighter the comparison in reactions when I was lighter was like that of my mothers. It just like some "white" people wish tan, others don't.

So in truth skin color does matter individually, but not as a whole.

If 100 people had to rank 100 models in a beauty competition, would there not be 100 different lists?
Are the top five all the same skin color?

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 07:36 pm:

Personally i like sharp features . A woman with sharp features (not too sharp though :=} ) and a nice ass turns me on. Black , white is for some racist people.
I don't give a shitt about colour. And for the racists here, who says only blacks have blunt features? Why, u never seen any whites with blunt features? do u live in a village on a mountain or something?never seen many people have u? idiots.

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 02:22 pm:

i think black ppl are plain ugly, bottom line

By Anonymous on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 06:48 pm:

Who are we to judge whether black or white is more beautiful.In the bible it says we are fearfully and wonderfully made in GODS own image.i believe going into deatil on this issue will only cause more conflict.Its that simple period.

By raider on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 09:21 pm:

i think you all suck!

By anonymous on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 04:21 am:

RE : "caucasian bloke"

All whites find dark skinned women lovely?
Does that also include the far right groups as well?

now tell the other one+

By pun on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 02:46 am:

i think people of all races are beautiful i am a light skinned black and it is harder for darker skinned women in britain.most of the black men i know do prefer ligher skinned women.It is a fact that a lighter skinned girl is more likely to be approached by a guy than a dark skinned girl regardless of whether she is good lookin or not which i think is a very sad fact

By ¨Caucasian_bloke on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 04:02 am:

All White males find dark skinned very pretty....all Indian males are racist , they only like fair skinned people and they have the guts to call White people for racist! Go to an Indian Matrimonial add online...they only talk about fair skin etc....WELL WHITES, WE ARE REALLY FAIR AND WE PREFER DARK-SKINNED LADIEZZ BECAUSE THEY ARE THE MOST PRETTY IN THE WHOLE WORLD...I CANT BELIEVE INDIAN GIRLS WANNA BE WITH INDIAN MALES , AFTER ALL THEY ONLY THINK ABOUT SEX,SKIN COLOUR AND "STATUS" ALL THE TIME. THEY GIVE A DAMN ABOUT LOVE IN THIS WORLD ...

By ndn gal on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 10:13 pm:

i personally think light-skinned women r more attractive. but, beauty depends more on features n how proportionate (how those facial or physical features r put together) the person is.
for men, features n proportion basically decide the attractiveness rather than skin color.

i'm not gonna talk abt inner-beauty or stuff like that coz there r enuf ppl in this world who discuss moral/imotional stuff.

to ppl like mfree : stop calling black ppl 'nigger'. ok??? u may personally dislike a group but that does NOT give u the right to call others name!!!

By Huey on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 10:29 am:

Speaking of dark/light skin, there was an episode of "Oh Drama," on BET. The subject was about dark-skinned and light-skinned black men: Who's better looking?

Back in the 80's, lighter-skinned black men (e.g. Prince, Michael Jackson, Morris Day, El Debarge, etc.) seem to be more in demand than darker skinned black men. Eddie Murphy and Denzel Washington were probably the only exceptions.

But not until Wesley Snipes appeared in the movie "New Jack City", and Morris Chestnut in "Boyz N The Hood" (both in 1991), darker skinned men became more popular (e.g. male model Tyson Beckford, Taye Diggs, Omar Epps, etc.)

I was wondering when will the medium skinned guys like myself will ever become popular? LOL

By Ann Onimus on Sunday, May 19, 2002 - 08:48 am:

What makes a person more or less attractive is what they exude from their inner personality.
I like dark skin- from tan to very dark,deep, rich brown- ethnicity not considered. Many different people can be attractive, nevermind their colour.
Sometimes very pale skin looks fragile, darker skin usually does not. Maybe dark skin is a little tougher- it stands up to UV rays pretty well.
So many different skin shades are beautiful. Sadly, stereotypical prejudice can sometimes embitter the wearer of a less appreciated- although no less beautiful- skin tone.

By fugee on Saturday, May 18, 2002 - 03:15 pm:

Its not just about colour - just being white doesn't mean that you're good looking!! Its all dependent on how the features are put together, body type, good hair, and some style. Just because a person is fair or white or lightskinned doesn't make them a supermodel!! Individual conceptions of beauty is such that to one person, x is the best thing ever, while to another x is a complete bow wow. But seeing as this is an Indian forum, I guess that its dumb to even argue this - to most Indians of course lightskin=attractive person!! hahaha!! My Indian boyfriend is lightskinned, and enlightened, smart and wonderful as he is, he still thinks that light is beautiful, dark is ugly!! How dumb, ignorant and hypocritical can these people be??

By Nive on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 05:32 pm:

I am interested in speaking with people using skin-lightening creams. If that is your case, you can send me a mail at the following adress: mlamkaddem@hotmail.com

Hoping to hear from you!

By Andrea on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 07:34 am:

True beauty is found in the heart of a person not in the skin.

By Anonymous on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 05:04 am:

All you folks should be proud of what god give you...
You are what you were born.. Dont fall into the hands of white prejudice.. Why do natural skinned people want to look pale white for.. Is it to impress the whites or what???

By Nive on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 03:48 pm:

Anybody there?

By Nive on Thursday, March 28, 2002 - 02:40 pm:

I would really like to speak with some people using those bleaching agents. It is not, as Carlan said, a matter of jugement, but of genuine interest. So, if you ever used such cosmetic, please tell me and we could keep on chatting per email...
Thanks a lot in advance,

Nive

By Ahrani on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 05:27 pm:

Hi - I am researching for a TV series in the UK for BBC Choice about 22 to 35 year olds within the UK. We are looking for people within this age group who use skin lightening treatments as they want to change the colour of their skin. If you fit the bill or can help, please get in touch! We are filming the week beginning 8th April 2002 through until 10th May 2002 and are therefore keen to speak with people as soon as possible.
I hope you can help!
Many thanks in advance,
I look forward to hearing from you!
Cheers,
Ahrani
Outline Productions
E-mail: ahrani@outlineproductions.co.uk
Tel: 020 7284 8180

By Carlan on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 08:30 pm:

I wonder why it is that though most of us believe that we know what beauty is or is not to us that we still feel the need to have to convince other people that we do know what beauty is? Though most of us believe in the age-old adage of ‘Beauty is in the eye (I say mind) of the beholder’, we still find ourselves adamantly compelled to defend our views on beauty as if the other person hasn’t a clue what beauty really is or is not. Do you think we do these things because we wish to convince them of their naive ness? Or do you think we do it because we need to reassure ourselves of our own definition of what beauty might be or might not be? Do you think that if we keep pounding our ideas of what beauty are into other people’s minds that that will somehow induce in them a change in their views? Do you think that for every time that you say how beautiful a certain race or color or ethnic group is that that will actually cause other peoples with opposite views from yours to change their opposing views? Do you think that when someone tells you and tells you repeatedly what beauty is to them, which is diametrically opposite to your own views that you do or will change your views?

On the subject of skin color lightening or darkening, I think it is entirely up to the individuals involved. Just like people who artificially add hair or remove it, color their hair, install braces to straighten teeth, wear false teeth, add teeth whitener to make them whiter than they naturally would be, add mascara or blush, wear certain clothes or other accessories to set off their otherwise plain exteriors, so on and so forth, I think these people can lighten or darken their skin if they so desire. What their reasoning is for doing whatever they want to do to their own bodies need not be explained or defended to any of the rest of us.

By Anonymous on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 08:31 pm:

Of course. The standard of beauty has everything to do with the majority ruling. The American standard of beauty seems to have reached all over the world. All over the world, light skin is more accepted than dark skin. What a sad reality.

By nive on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 01:57 pm:

Dear "Anonymous",

I totally agree with the fact that even an intensive use of skin bleaching creams would not make one "white". But I find it quite striking that the beauty ideal among black people is to have a lighter skin. Why not dark? My question is the following: is that beauty standard developped over the years and centuries related to racial dicrimination. I know that in the USA at the beginnig of the 20th, some mothers did give their kids those creams because they were aware that their children did stand a better chance of achieving a more confortable social status being lighter...

By Anonymous on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 03:51 am:

Nive,

This is just one fact about skin lightening creams. Indians use them. Most people of color use skin bleaching creams. They use those products primarily to even out the skin tone after an acne attack. That's the primary reason people of color use skin bleaching creams. Most people of color do not use skin lighteners, per se, to become "white." If that were the case, they would have to buy the stuff by the sack and even then the result wouldn't be they became suddenly "white."

By nive on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 03:07 pm:

Hi!
This conversation looks very interesting. I am a sociologist and I happen to work now on a paper about the use of shin-lightening creams in the Netherlands among west-african, suriname, indonesian and north african people.
I would be really interested in getting your opinion about the relation between the use of those creams and the racial discrimination those groups have to face. What do you think of it?

By Anonymous on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 07:57 am:

hey guys lets not oversell our women as being very attractive, lets keep this beauty to ourselves. We dont want to lose our women to these white folks.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 11:02 pm:

RE : Anonymous ( no colored women)

You are an idiot.
I never said this is right or wrong, i am making an observation from what i have seen.
All the most successful people, from politicians to athletes and other such people all seem to have a certain type of partner.
Its mainly white attractive women.
Right or wrong, that is the observation that has been made.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 02:31 am:

To Anonymous - claiming "No colored women."

Guy, you sound like a real jackazz. Some of the richest men in the world have dark girlfriends and wives...take your false sense of what is accepted in the east and west in terms of female skin color preference and stick it up your racist arse.

By Indian_man on Sunday, February 24, 2002 - 10:11 am:

Hey... I find dark women much more attractive then the colourless white women. Dark women like Indian/Pakistani/Afghan/Iran etc are the most beautifull in the universe.

By chre on Sunday, February 24, 2002 - 09:02 am:

reverse racists rule the world

reverse racists are so convinced of their self-supposed moral superiority that they cannot accept any sensible arguments. they are merely emotionally driven, and use 'facts' only to justify their emotionally derived opinions

reverse racists openly proclaim their anti-white, pro-black racism and are never punished.

reverse racists think they win every argument just by calling the other side a 'racist'

By Anonymous on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 11:30 pm:

Beauty doesnt come from the way u look, or the color ur skin has. it comes from beneath all the skin and bones...which happens to be called soul.

By Dexter on Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 05:52 pm:

Agreed. Just because a person looks good [or fair], doesn't mean that he or she is good or fair.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 05:00 pm:

"Is being fair guaranteeing that we also have a fairer soul and a fair mind? "

Who ever wrote this must live in a cloud cuckoo land.

Some of the most fairest and, presumed by some, most attractive are the most hate filled of all.
Apparently they beleive that their "beauty" sets them apart, as something special.
Regrettable but true.

By Anonymous on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 07:42 pm:

In the fashion world as well as other places where beauty is portrayed, the most beautiful women are the blond haired and blue eyed ones, with the whitest skin.
The highest paid models are white.
Also, the richest men on earth all prefer to be with a certain type of woman.
And you can be gauranteed that none of these will be what is termed as "colored".
That should tell you everything.

By gowan on Tuesday, January 22, 2002 - 03:59 pm:

RE : anonymous - shut up

Why not give a straight answer to the question?

By Anonymous on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 07:32 pm:

In America everyone goes around saying that they are not racist. then why do they ask for your race on job applications and futhermore they have all kinds of races mentioned except Indian and they expect you to claim yourself as an Asian. well do russians claim to be Asians even when they dominate most of the territory in Asia.

By Dexter on Saturday, November 03, 2001 - 04:13 am:

Aryan,

I have to say both elements exist in America.

By Aryan on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 05:16 am:

Yah your too right Editor..WELL SAID>>

AND Dextor....you know what....somebody on this kewl website..actually made this following statement..

They said they believed America was the most unracist country in the world...

What is your opinion on this....?? I laughed and said I totally disagreed..I think America is one of the most racist places in the world..

It is sadly full of people..like mfree.

Cheers DEXter.

Aryan

By SS on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 01:07 am:

By SS on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 01:06 am:
Hi I happen to know mfree and very well too. He is not only a person of darker skin but also a homosexual. Not that his sexual taste matter. But people here should know the truth.
"Mfree once again you are starting crap like you did at John's C's house last summer.

By SS on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 01:05 am:

Hi I happen to mfree and very well too. He is not only a person of darker skin but also a homosexual. Not that his sexual taste matter. But people here should know the truth.
"Mfree once again you are starting crap like you did at John's C's house last summer.

By Anonymous on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 05:28 pm:

shutup

By gowan on Saturday, September 22, 2001 - 03:21 pm:

RE : EDITOR
After all that ahs happened in the world, a lot to indians in terms of racism and everything else, you can still say what you say?
If the world is so equal why doesn't america go and help the indians in fiji?
It sent soldiers to somalia to help the people there, though they did respond by killing white americans and standing on their corpses.
Why not use the seventh fleet to help out the indians in fiji?
They at least would be grateful to america, if this is a truly equal world.
Any answers?

By Girl on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 05:33 pm:

mfree, the things you say are digusting. You make me feel ashamed to be human. You can't judge someone by their colour. It's stupid. If someone of your colour killed someone, it would not make you guilty. You are not the same as everyone who is your colour. No one is. Whether your black, white, Asian the same thing applies. It is not your right to say "nigger". It is a racist word which is insulting to everyone who reads it. Here's a statictic for you, most people who go along with racist views and those who belong to racist groups are of low intelligence. They go along with it because it makes them feel good about themselves.

By Dexter on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 11:03 am:

It may be well overdue, but thanks for your message, Oberon. It was well done.

By Dark Everything on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 01:03 am:

mfree, your display of blatant ignorance is truly amazing. Your "thoughts" on race are characterized by an incredible amoung of redundancy. As if repeating yourself would transform your lies into truth.

And since you believe you're some sort of expert on "violent by nature" theories, can you tell me why most serial killers are Caucasians? Instead of saying "Black people commit the most crimes", why don't you specify the types of crimes that are committed. Tnen explain why there is an abundancy of these psychotic "kill you for pleasure" type murderers in comparison to us African Americans.

Furthermore, most child molesters are also Caucasian and your entire history is characterized by the element of homosexuality. Such as the Athens and their enjoyment of young boys. And don't get me started on the whole naked wrestling thing.

Just as you may say as a racist bastard that all Black people are nothing but "stupid criminals on welfare" I could say that the entire the White "race" are no more than pitiful pedaphiles whose underdeveloped genitals are only good for fucking children.

But alas, spouting profanities only makes you appear to be foolish, idiotic, and uncivilized. Not to mention prejudice.

By Jay on Wednesday, July 11, 2001 - 05:05 pm:

If anyone is interested and likes to read intelligent discussions on the race issue, there's an excellent book called Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond - this man describes the scientific reason for racial features in understandable layperson's terms. He doesn't talk only of race, but reasons for various colors in skin in one of the many interesting chapters. It gave me a new perspective on race and why we view each other based on skin color and how silly it is that we are (still) so divided over something as irrelevant as this, when this whole debate is so primitive. I have always thought the whole color issue was a waste of time - I mean, who cares what color you are. But this book gave some interesting points. Enjoy the book!

By Anonymous on Monday, July 02, 2001 - 06:27 pm:

I think if any of you go on about the colour of someone's skin above anything else you are racist and VERY STUPID. I mean who cares what colour someone's skin is? I find all different races attractive as individuals. I might find one person of a race attractive and another person of the same race not attractive I really don't see what all of your problems are. Why don't u all just celebrate people's differences and one day you will not just think of someone as a colour but see them for who they are and judge them by that. No colour person is superior to any other colour and neither is any person from different backgrounds we are all the same inside (unless you are evil etc). I am very pale skinned with golden hair and i don't find this pigmentation attractive at all. I like a darker colouring. But people should let other people decide how they want to look. Why is it that some "white" people are racist against darker skins but they would never go through a summer without turning their pale skin darker and what is not natural for them - it's as if they are trying to subconciously be something that they're not. I feel sorry for people of African origin with dark skin who feel that they look better with lighter skin and lighter hair, just look at Beyonce from Destiny's Child, her hair is now blonde. But, this may not be because she is subconciously saying she wants to be white, but because she feels like a change in her appearance. SO WHY DOES EVERYONE CARE THAT IS MY POINT, LEAVE PEOPLE TO BE HOW THEY WILL BE AND EVERYONE WILL BE HAPPY. BYE-BYE

By Oberon on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 04:00 pm:

Wow...we are all really obsessed with race, moreso than I thought...worldwide...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One does get tired of the mainstream media's constant bombardment of us with this blonde thing. I mean, other types of women (African, Asian, Latina, etc.) can be and are beautiful, but everyone wants a blonde like Gwyneth Paltrow (whom I think is ugly - thin, wide mouth, stringy hair, non-existent rear end, etc.) There are lots of ugly white people, just like there are ugly people of other races. Personally, I don't care for blondes or redheads. I guess that makes me a racist too, huh? I think whites with dark features and hair are more attractive than blonds. I do think that Asian and Latin women are knockouts. Everyone has preferences, and if you are into whites only or your own people only, that's fine. But in my experience, it's usually because you don't like non-whites, especially blacks, as it has been proven here. Indians have beautiful skin shades. I don't necessarily buy into the "white is right" theory when it comes to beauty. It doesn't work for me...

I cannot believe some of the downright hateful things I have read about black women on this site - written by non-whites themselves! Who was the jerk that said Negroid features were ugly and "uneccesary" or something like that, and that our "phenotype" would eventually die out? Jeez, Louise. And that North Africans and East Africans are not really black? Hello! If your people are African, trust me, there is a Negroid strain in you, whether you are the lightest Egyptian or the darkest bushman. I've read too much information to believe otherwise, regardless of what anyone says. Dexter was 110% right...

As for us African-Americans (including those in Latin America), whether we like it or not, our standard of beauty is based on Caucasian, Indian AND African standards, I can't say that it's right or wrong, it just is...but light skin and European features are NOT the only thing that makes us attractive...

My mother is African-American, and brown-skinned and was quite lovely in her day (good enough to audition for Fashion Fair in the 60's), but people gave her a hard time because she was considered too dark! It seems like we are getting over it now. But we are still stuck on color. Listen to how people in the white media trash Alek Wek, who is stunning to me...as is Naomi Campbell...

I try to love everyone, but I REALLY get sick of people saying thoughtless and cruel things about people of sub-saharan african descent, when they have never really studied them. Most white anthropologists/historians make almost deliberate attempts to minimize West/Central/Southern Africa's contribution to the world. Some simply dismiss it, some minimize it, and others outright suppress information. I NEVER listen to a non-black's opinion or assessment of sub-Saharan Africa's contribution, because I don't think it is entirely based on truth. Maybe that is racist of me, but I cannot believe what they say.

It took 400 years for us to get like this because of colonialism, racism and oppression - recovery won't happen overnight. Hang in there Diaspora, we're gonna be alright!

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 14, 2001 - 02:49 pm:

I am reading this discussion,at first it was interesting and intelligent,but now it has degenerated to a hopeless level of hatemongering and defensiveness.I am frankly stunned and dismayed at the low level of logic or debating skills displayed her by some the different posts.And as for mfree,my honest opinion,is he has proven to me not the superiority of the "white" race,but how incapable of reason he is.With his reverence for Eurocentric culture,why doesn't he get a book,and read "The Problem of Knowledge",by AJ Ayers,and the concise Oxford dictionary,because frankly his spelling and use of the English language is apalling!

By MOC on Saturday, June 02, 2001 - 11:54 am:

What makes a person "attractive" is how closely that person resemble the "average" person in the observers experience. Deviation from the norm still evokes involuntary unease. This is probably an innate survival mechanism of all animals. The more homogenous society becomes the less this is a problem.

Regarding the use of black and white to describe skin color, B&W are not colors. They are shades which modify the appearance of colors. So what is the real color of the skin? Who knows, who cares.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 04:06 pm:

Hmmm Hmmm...White Or Black Or Yellow... Try to close your eyes.. Does it matter now? Color is what we see..But not what we smell..or hear or taste or even feel... Beauty in color is nothing when you are blind!!! Luckily this discussion was not about young attractive 1 n old ugly 1...what color you in..when you get old..it is always less attractive..well not in the case of antique!!!

By FAIR SKINNED CHINESE AUSTRALIAN on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 02:58 am:

WHY IS THIS DISCUSSION BEING RESTRICTED TO BLACK AND WHITE? SKINCOLOUR IS THE BASIS OF STEREOTYPE AND RACISM THAT IS A RESULT OF PEOPLES VIEW OF ANOTHER IN BIOLOGICAL TERMS. OF COURSE IT IS UNTRUE THAT SKIN COLOUR CANNOT DETERMINE WHO IS MORE BEAUTIFUL. I FIND IT SAD THAT SOME PEOPLE WISH TO ALTER THEIR APPEARANCE TO LOOK LIKE ANOTHER ETHNIC GROUP. FOR INSTANCE ASIANS PARTICULARLY IN JAPAN, CHINA ETC HAVE A HUGE MARKET OF SKIN LIGHTENING CREAMS. COSMETIC COMPANIES ARE TOO FOCUSED ON PROFIT TO WARN PEOPLE ABOUT THE DANGERS OF SKIN WHITENING- WHICH IS PRETTY MUCH LIKE COSMETIC SURGERY. ASIAN SKIN IS ALREADY LIGHT. I DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND WHY COSMETIC COMPANIES CLASSIFY IT AS 'ASIAN SKIN'OR 'OLIVE SKIN'. A MAJORITY OF ASIANS HAVE REALLY LIGHT SKIN,SOME EVEN WHITER THAN CAUCASIANS,YET CAUCASIANS ARE STILL CLAIMING TO BE THE IDEAL BEAUTY IMAGE.

By Asteroid on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 06:12 pm:

Humans can be such idiots. That's a fact. God intended us to be perfect, but obviously Adam and Eve messed up big time. You people went to kindergarten to learn how to count from 1 to 3 and say your ABCs yet your minds are still under-developed.

Maybe the teachers didn't teach you all how to mix colors. You see, when you put blue and red together, you get purple and when you mix black with white you get "gray". All people mixed with these two colors should be called "gray" or "shades of gray" if in actuality there are such races as black and white.

Who decided that people with fair skin should be called "white" and people with dark skin should be called "black". Obviously, this was the doing of idiotic human beings. My goodness, look how many followers these persons have today. Can't think for yourselves huh?

These two specific group of people as they so call themselves "white" and "black" are the most annoying races on planet Earth. Sometimes my brain hurts when I hear them speak.

Please explain, if you have the time to actually use the brain you were all given at birth, what are "light-skinned" blacks and what are "darker- skinned" whites? Do you people know how stupid that sounds?

Fair is fair, and dark is dark. If people were actually the color "white" then they can't be darker now can they? and if they were actually the color "black" then they can't be any lighter now can they?

And what is this nonsense on some applications that have check boxes indicating what your "race" is? Most of them have listed; white, black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American. It is amazing how the genius humans went from two colors (white & black), to a language (Spanish), to a continent(Asia) to a people or origin(Native). Why didn't these geniuses just give everybody a color so the phrase "people of color" can actually be "true".

People don't have race issues. People just have "ISSUES". Do any of you think that once your so called "race" issues are over your troubles are over? Not a chance! Can't you all see we are living in a modern "Barbarian" society. No thought goes into anyone's mind before speech.

Do any of you really think you can save your "race" from the "WRATH" to come? I bet every man and woman will be trying to defend themselves. Do you think your beauty will matter? Just one word of wrath from Almighty GOD and all your beauty will shrivel up.

Do any of you think that the contributions your wonderful, magnificent, super-smart, totally incredible "races" made to society will make a difference in the presence of Almighty God? Not for a second! GOD doesn't need little technological advances. He will burn them all! So much for your hard work! What will you say to him? "Lord, I did so much for society, please don't destroy all my people's hard work! please!please! pretty please!".

I tell you, the Lord will beam his 10,000 watts of light energy through your bodies and seek out your "heart" and when he finds "nothing", trust me you are "nothing". So much for your looks. What will you say to him? "Lord, my skin is fair! please don't put me in the Lake of Fire or I will burn"

Judgement Day will be the ultimate drama scene. Tickets are now on sale. I can't wait.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 06:30 am:

Indo and Pround

In case you come back and read this I'd like to mark that you're completely mistaken. Indian identity should come from our heritage not our wealth or our ability to dominate over indigenous cultures of pacific nations. White Americans are not racists as your ignorant canadian ass beleives. Indians like you make the rest of us look bad. Please read your comments , they are so very archaic. Get your head checked

By Dexter on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 07:20 am:

Skwerel,

I think the reason is that although you have fair skin and blue eyes, the dark hair makes you exotic. It's rare to find a pale, BRUNETTE, blue-eyed person. It's an exotic look. Usually, brunettes are more likely to become more darker than blondes and redheads.

And they're more likely to have darker eyes too. Considering that blue eyes and fair skin are European standards of beauty (i.e. "the fairest of them all"--Snow White), and still have dark raven hair, your features are a mixture of European and non-European standards of beauty; that would explain why latino men would be attracted to you. Some will say that you have the best of both worlds, according to your description.

I don't know why some white people would look down upon fair skin, and they're fair also. I don't have the slightest idea because I'm not white. I don't think that it's not about having very fair skin, but just not being able to tan, which maybe the reason.

By Skwerel on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 03:37 am:

I am a white female college student. I am doing a research paper on how having fair skin has affected my life. Ever since I can remember, I have been picked on because I am sooooo fair skinned that I never tan. Because of the fact that I have black hair and blue eyes the lightness, I am talking alabaster here, is ever the more profound. I keep looking for articles about women who have fair skin. What I am finding everywhere I go is a contrast between black and white, where fair skin means a white person? what about the discrimination bewteen white people? Why do whites look down upon REALLY fair skin? Why are latino men more prone to look at me? What is it about VERY FAIR white skin that people like or don't like?

By INDO AND PROUD on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 05:55 am:

THE AVERAGE EAST INDIAN OR JUST INDIAN IN GENERAL LIVING IN THE WESTERN WORLD HAS A HIGHER INCOME THAN THE AVERAGE CAUCASIAN.

IN CLOSE TO 50-100 YEARS THE WHITE POPULATION WORLD WIDE IS DRAMATICALLY GOING TO DROP.

IN THE NEXT 20 YEARS EAST INDIANS (INDIANS)ARE GOING TO DOMINATE 85% OF AMERICAS TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRY.

THE AVERAGE EAST INDIAN KID HAS HIGHER ACADEMIC SCORE THAN THE AVERAGE CAUCASIAN. WHICH IS WHY WHEN EVER YOU SEE AN ACADEMIC COMPETITION ON TV LIKE A SPELLING BEE, MATHEMATIC CONTESTS ETC. MAJORITY ARE WON BY INDIAN KIDS. AN INDIAN KID BY THE NAME OF GEORGE THAMPY (WIZZ KID) STILL HOLDS THE YOUTH ACEDEMIC TITLE SECOND TO ANOTHER EAST INDIAN KID.

INDIANS HAVE THE LOWEST CRIME RATE OUT OF ALL PEOPLE OF COLOUR.

THE COUNTRY OF INDIA IS NO LONGER GOING TO BE A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY.

IN CANADA EAST INDIANS (INDIANS) DOMINATE IN ECONOMY NEXT TO THE CHINESE AND THE PREMIER OF BC IN CANADA IS EAST INDIAN.

IF YOU LIVE IN THE NORTH WEST YOU SEE THAT BILL GATES IS HIRING AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF INDIANS AT MICROSOFT. PROBABLY BECAUSE HE KNOWS HOW INTELLIGENT THEY ARE.

THE NEW INVENTION OF THE NEW ENGINE THATS RUNS ON WATER WHICH IS ABOUT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLDS TRANSPORTATION WAS MADE BY AN EAST INDIAN. THAT TECHNOLGY IS NOW BEING USED IN TRANSPORATION HERE IN VANCOUVER. SO THAT MEANS INDIANS ARE GOING TO HELP TO SAVE A LARGE PART OF THE WORLDS ENVIRONMENT STARTING IN 2002.

THE INDIANS TOOK OVER ALL THE POVERTY STRUCKEN BLACK ISLANDS LIKE FIJI, TRINIDAD, AND ALL THE WEST INDIES AND TOOK OVER THE GOVT AND BECAME THE ONLY WEALTHY, INTELLIGENT, DOMINANT RACE IN THESE ISLANDS. ITS ALSO GREAT TO SEE ALL THE BILLION DOLLAR SUCCESFUL INDIAN COMPANIES TAKING OVER THE NASDAQ, AND THE DOW JONES.

I AM A CANADIAN BORN FIJIAN INDIAN WHICH ARE EAST INDIANS THAT ARE BORN IN THE FIJIAN ISLANDS AND I LIVE IN A SUBURB OF VANCOUVER BC CALLED SURREY BC. BACK IN THE 80'S SURREY WAS ALL WHITE AND IT WAS BROKE DOWN AND POOR UNTIL THE INDIANS CAME ALONG WITH THEIR BUSINESS SMARTS AND TURNED THIS CITY INTO THE MOST SUCCESSFUL ECONOMIC MUNICIPALITY IN ALL OF CANADA, MAKING SURREY THE BEVERLY HILLS OF CANADA AND NOW SURREY'S MAJORTY IS EAST INDIAN (INDIAN)AND SURREY IS A HOUSE HOLD NAME THROUGHOUT CANADA. IT IS ALSO GOOD TO SEE THE LARGE EAST INDIAN POPULATION BEING MIDDLE OR UPPER CLASS CITIZEN'S.

I AM GLAD TO SEE HOW MY PEOPLE THE BILLION STRONG HINDI INDIAN POPULATION IS DOING SO SUCCESSFUL IN THE WESTERN WORLD.I AM GLAD TO HEAR THAT WERE GOIN TO SURPASS THE CHINESE FOR THE WORLDS LARGEST POPULATION.

MY QUESTION FOR THE WHITES ARE HOW COME IN CANADA MOST OF THE WHITES ARE FRIENDLY GOOD PEOPLE AND THE WHITES IN AMERICA ARE SO RACIST AND PREJUDICE?

JUST TO LET YOU KNOW I AM ANOTHER 19 YEAR OLD INDIAN KID E-COMMERCE WIZZ THATS WORTH $1.5 MILLION.

TO ALL MY INDIANS IN HERE KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

AND FOR ALL THE BLACKS IN TALKING ABOUT SKIN COLOUR THAT I AM A DARK BROWN GUY AND I WOULD NEVER CHANGE MY SKIN COLOUR BECAUSE I LOVE IT. AND HAVE YOU EVER NOTICED THAT THERE ARE NO LIGHT-SKINNED AFRO-AMERICAN MALE MODELS OR ATLEAST THAT I CANT THINK OF ANY.

JUST REMEMBER THIS QUOTE FROM TUPAC "THEY SAY DARKER THER SKIN SWEETER THE FRUIT/ BUT I SAY DARKER THE FLESH AND DEEPER THE ROOTS"

By g on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 04:58 am:

r

By Felicia on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 09:30 pm:

Why should this be even a discussion. But I will comment.

I am a medium-brown skinned American woman of African descent. I sport a short natural afro (I cut out the relaxer in my hair because I hated the idea of "straightening" my curly locks), small nose, full luscious lips, and brown almond shaped eyes. Some men find this type of look very attractive and appealing to them. I get strong looks from White men, (some, by-the-way, are very aggressive in their approach toward black women), Hispanic, Asian and of course, African-american men. I consider myself attractive. However, some people may not. But I don't give a crap!! I do accept nor adopt the 'majority'(caucasian)view on what is consider beautiful because it come from an EUROCENTRIC perspective.

Some of the reasons why various people of color (Asian, India, African, Native-American, Pacific Islanders, Hispanic, etc.) are struggling to accept their "BLESSED" browness and physically features is because of white racial superiority. According to the writings of past white colonist, "white is RIGHT, beautiful, fair, delicate, pure, angelic" and "black is bad, demonic, ugly, inferior, dirty, mentally inferior." This concept has been ingrained in the minds of people of color for centuries, that some of us believe and live those negative things. Many of us are still suffering from (including whites), "Post-Tramatic Slavery Syndrom." Until our minds/hearts are set free from the above-mentioned negativity, racial stereotypes, bigotry, and we learn to LOVE AND ACCEPT our selves and each other, and people believe that they were created in the IMAGE OF GOD, that there will be NO end to this white/light vs. brown/dark brown thing.

There are some attractive white/light people but every white person with white eyes and white hair are NOT BEAUTIFUL. Yet, whenever, I watch these magazine shows, i.e., "Hard Copy" or "Entertainment Tonight," every white person that they interview or that stars in a movie, "they" consider as Beautiful, blond-bombshells. The media rarely recognize African, Asian, Native-American, brown, dark-brown Hispanic, and Pacific Islander women as beautiful. (whom I think are the most beautiful women in the world). According to the magazines, and t.v. media, we are just simply "exotic." They don't know beauty when they see it. That's why we as people of color, (P.C.'s) need to recognize and see the beauty in our own selves and not look toward the whites to affirm our beauty because they never will. I DO NOT have the desire to be white or look white. I am quite comfortable in my own skin.

If being White/light is suppose to be sooooo "beautiful" and "superior," then why do a lot of whites/lights:
= tan themselves to death (to look black),
= always in and out of the plastic surgeons office for face-lifts, lips, tummy tucks, nose, lips, cheeks jobs, and so on, and so on, and so on,
= have silicon shot in their lips and hips and everything else!
= and wrinkle and age faster than P.C.'s.

Beauty should NOT be based outwardly, but solely on the inside. And when the day comes when we all stand before God to be judged, He will NOT judge on the basis of skin coloring or looks, but the condition of ones heart.

By Dexter on Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 04:48 pm:

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since I've written here. Happy New Year.

As a guy I can at least say that men are usually very stimulated visually. Many men (in this particular case--black and Indian men)usually will tend to pick women who are noticibly lighter than they are.

But just because a woman is a lighter complexion doesn't mean that they're automatically cute. And I like to add that if a woman is of a darker complexion doesn't mean that she's unattractive. Whether you're dark-complected like Nandita Das or Angela Bassett or light like a Aishwarya Rai or Vanessa L. Williams, it's the way a woman carries herself and how she thinks of herself that makes her beautiful. A woman can be physically attractive, but still can be "ugly" because of her attitude or her self esteem. Now if a woman is a good-hearted person, but with average looks then she can be more beautiful than the attractive 'bad' attitude woman because the 'good' woman is more comfortable with herself and also she's more approachable.

To Leighanne,

You said that you're Nigerian and Brazilian. Are the black men in Britain who like lighter skinned women, are from America, born/raised in the UK or the Caribbean? In America, many black guys here (thankfully not all of us) usually pick lighter skinned black women. One can easily blame colonialism or the media for glamorizing lighter women and not showing darker complected women of all races.

Just curious, but how is the relations in Britain? I hope one day I could travel there.

Dex

By Pearlsnlace on Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 12:40 am:

In response to CONTEMPLATING:

There's several regimens to preserve your skin.

1. Take 1000 mg of Vitamin C with Rose Hips daily,it builds collagen and elastin in your skin.
2. I make an all natural suntan oil that's loaded with herbs and essential oils to preserve your skin.
3. Click on my website for more information.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 12:21 pm:

Dear White Fellow,
Couple of things you should know
When I was born, I Black
When I grow up, I Black
When I go in the sun, I Black
When I cold, I Black
When I scared, I Black
When I sick, I Black
And When I die, I still Black.
YOU WHITE FELLA
When you born, you pink
When you grow up, you white
When you go in sun, you red
When you cold, you blue
When you scared, you yellow
When you sick, you green
And When you die, you grey
And you have the fuckin nerve to call me colored ??

By The UnModel Asian, posting again on Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 05:43 am:

PS. And I always thought African American women were very pretty. They have such large expressive eyes, full mouths, and bright smiles. And I love their voices. And they are big and strong, and full of life. When I was a kid, I used to think I'd like to be one if I ever decided to change my race...

By The Unmodel Asian on Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 05:32 am:

As much as I wish it wasn't so, I have to agree with Carlan: "With all else being equal, the color of your skin, the prettiness of your face, etc. will help or hurt you in determining everything from your life's occupation to the personal treatment you will receive throughout your life". I can make myself look ugly or attractive as I wish, and I'm always treated better when I look more attractive (I love to change my appearance like that and notice the difference in treatment!). It's not what I wanted to find out though. But the above is true only if _all_ else is equal, including your personalities, which is an impossibilty. So, you can always win with a more appealing personality.

As for attractiveness, may be another factor is being overlooked: status. Perhaps African American males feel they enjoy a higher status when seen with lighter skinned females, regardless of their physical attractiveness. In south Asia (where I'm from), there is almost a certain status involved with being lighter skinned. I'm not as light skinned as my parents, and am treated differently than my parents or brother (even though I'm still considered fair). In their presence, I don't get as much attention as them, but in their absence, I might be treated nicer if I'm known to be their child/sibling (or if I'm fairer than the others around). And when I stop playing in the sun (being less tanned), I'm always more welcome

To clarify a point made by Ken Park (since you _asked_ to be corrected): Tamils are not Aryan. They are of Dravidian origin, as are the natives of Sumatra, Borneo, and the aborigines of Australia. However, they have heavily intermarried with the Aryans of northern India and look somewhat similar as a result.

By Pat on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 09:25 am:

I am a little puzzled by Sad World's comments. I disagree with his statement "An African American who is light skinned , but with a preponderance of negroid features is generally regarded as less attractive than a dark person of any race with caucasoid features." I think of light skinned African American women like Tisha Campbell, Tyra Banks and Vanessa Williams, who I think are all beautiful. The statement "Many women have the overprocessed ,stiff dull looking hair and protruding features and large bodies. The exaggeration of features and the hair type probably are just not attractive to other races" I disagree with. These are traits I find attractive. (Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, obviously).

By Houlihan on Wednesday, December 20, 2000 - 03:13 am:

SKIN COLOR DOES NOT MATTER AS LONG AS THE PERSONS
FACIAL FEATURES ARE DESIRABLE. BY DESIRABLE I MEAN
THAT ONE MUST NOT HAVE A PRIMITIVE OR PROTRUDING KIND
OF FACE(PROGNATHIC) BUT RATHER AN ORTHOGNATHIC
FACE,MOST COMMONLY FOUND IN THE PEOPLES OF EUROPEAN
OR SEMITIC ANCE

By Karma on Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 02:45 pm:

Sad World, probably initial contact would make one physically bias to one feature or another, but gosh...after that, it really comes down to the person's personality. If a lady has negroid features and you happen to be not physically attracted to those features, this doesn't mean that you won't develop an attraction toward this person at a later time, based on the person's personality.

I am half asian and half european myself and I personally do not get offended if someone decides that they do not like the slight slant in my almond-shaped eyes. I like my eyes, and that's all that really counts. If I were so caught up in how others see me, I'd be pretty dull...for I'd be so busy working on my physical attributes that I wouldn't take the opportunity to develop my inner self.

I happen to think that African American women are beautiful. Not only do they have a painful history, but their history adds a certain characteristic to their personality, somewhat guarded and contemptuous, that makes them desirable to men of many cultures. So, don't go jumping the gun and making statements that on the surface seems somewhat egotistical on the part of those with "ideal" features. Everyone is beautiful when they take the time to be "real".

By Dexter on Friday, December 15, 2000 - 10:24 pm:

Sad World,

According to your comments, I think you've just answered your own question.

By SadWorld on Friday, December 15, 2000 - 12:04 pm:

Attractiveness as a universal concept, is based soley on features. An African American who is light skinned , but with a preponderance of negroid features is generally regarded as less attractive than a dark person of any race with caucasoid features. I'm omitting Mongoloid because some Asians have almost negroid features. Unfortunately, evolutionary processes and mother nature have simply rendered some component of the negroid genetic genotype unservicable to continuity of mankind. Negroid, possibly being archaic in some respects is probably being slowly phased out. The simple rejection of phenotype , (outward appearance) by most other ethnicities, is probably somewhat of an evolutionary moritorium imposed on breeding. This has little to do with conscious thought registry. Many Africans are very intelligent and attractive, it's just african -americans who seem to have such negative press. Africans have a similar mindset to most immigrants who come to America or have immigrant parents. african -americans however, are americanized and marginalized. If only a certain subset of Chinese or any other foriegn group were brought over to North America 200 years ago as slaves,the same fate could possibly have befallen them. Many people fail to realize that African Americans are the products of slavery, in the not very distance past, in relation to the time-line of the world. For many of present day african americans, the lack of quality educational access and dire poverty of their parents ,grandparents and great grandparents, there exists a generational phenomenon. There is not much in terms of property, educational, or monetary inheritence for most african americans although they have been in this country almost as long as whites. It is a cruel study in contrasts between the majority and a truly disenfranchised minority. No other group in America has such a long history of misfortune. What self actualization or identification can a group of people have with an embarrassing history and complete lack of cultural cohesion? african americans do not even own thier own surnames! They are too far distanced from any real affinity to true africans. African -americans are very similar to americans in thought ,habit, and custom at this point. mybe it's just the fact that they still look different that they are just perceieved to be different. African -americans as a whole are generally just not very atractive . Many women have the overprocessed ,stiff dull looking hair and protruding features and large bodies. The exaggeration of features and the hair type probably are just not attractive to other races. That's why breeding has been largely contained within the race and I wish i knew exactly why most african americans arent considered attractive.

By now on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 07:44 pm:

"They Lied To You About Welfare"

Source: Take the Rich Off Welfare, by Mark Zepezauer & Arthur Naiman. Odonian Press, 1996. Downsize This!, by Michael Moore. HarperPerennial, 1997. The Scapegoat Generation, by Mike A. Males. Common Courage Press, 1996. "Hunger: A Startling Crisis," by Cokie Roberts and Steven V. Roberts. USA Weekend, March 27, 1998. "A President for the Rich," Editorial. International Workers Bulletin, June 17, 1996 "From Welfare to a Living Wage," Kentucky Youth Advocates, March 1997.

Copyright (c) 1999-2000 Nathan Tobin. nathan.tobin@oberlin.edu http://www.tbwt.com/webforum.asp

07-10-00

By Nathan Tobin

Most middle class kids don't think much about the issue of welfare. When young people do think about the issue, they often picture the stereotype fed to the public by right-wing politicians for over a decade: an urban-dwelling (usually black) single mother of six sitting in front of the television while collecting fat tax-funded checks. They imagine the mythical "Welfare Queen," an image Ronald Reagan first conjured up during a speech in the 1980s. And why shouldn't Americans be appalled at the thought of these irresponsible, lazy people taking the American taxpayers for a ride, burdening everyone else so that they don't have to work?

In fact, when imagining welfare recipients, the last person most people would picture is my mother: a divorced, visually-impaired white mother of two, working and attending school -- who would one day become a successful lawyer.

Although my mother collected welfare in the seventies, a lot of sources indicate the picture is pretty similar today. Working-class advocate Michael Moore says of the welfare stereotype: "Aside from the fact that it's racist, it's just not true. According to the U.S. government, the majority of welfare recipients are white, live in the suburbs, have two kids, want to work, and stay on welfare an average of only two years." The picture painted by welfare critics doesn't stand up to facts:

o A Kentucky Youth Advocates report shows that 78% percent of Kentucky recipients are white.

o While critics associate welfare with teen pregnancy, only 7% of non-dependent welfare recipients are teen parents. In fact, the research of Mike A. Males in The Scapegoat Generation showed that states with higher welfare benefits had lower rates of teen pregnancy.

o The whole idea of the "lazy young mothers on welfare who keep having babies" is wrong. "I had a male worker come to my house in 1973," said my mom, "and ask me what form of birth control I was using, which I really thought was none of his business... I suppose that some people would say, well if we the taxpayers are paying for you we're certainly entitled to know that you're not out making more babies to get bigger checks... [That] is a fallacious argument because you can't have enough babies to get a big enough check to pay for all those babies. The amount of extra money you get is not enough to pay the additional expenses for that child."

o The most ridiculous idea is that welfare recipients simply refuse to work for a living: they are lazy bums taking us all for a ride. Mike Males says: "Of course AFDC* recipients don't 'work.' Two-thirds of its beneficiaries are children... Two-thirds of the parents... are disabled. Thus at most, one-fifth of AFDC beneficiaries are 'able-bodied' non-workers."

o Of course, most of these "lazy" welfare mothers are indeed working: they're single-handedly caring for their family, which partially explains their trouble in finding decent work. "The anachronism that women, single or otherwise, who maintain households and raise children do not 'work' was buried until the AFDC debate resurrected it," says Males.

Why People Need Welfare

Despite the talk of a "booming economy," people are falling on hard times as much as ever, for a number of reasons.

The current trend in corporate downsizing is one factor. In the past 15 years or so, we've seen profitable corporations laying off tens of thousands of workers in the U.S. and taking their production to countries with looser labor laws, and thus lowering production costs. This trend has devastated local economies, as dramatized sharply in the documentary Roger & Me. The victims of downsizing, hardworking people who have sometimes worked for a company for decades, often have no choice but to go on welfare -- and the loss of jobs means fewer alternatives for those already unemployed.

People who deride the poor for laziness are out of touch with the difficulty of finding decent jobs. It's hard enough to get any job if you're poor, and have little or no higher education or training (as many welfare recipients do). And as our stories show, having a job doesn't fix everything.

For most people in this position, a minimum wage job is all they can get. A 1997 report by Kentucky Youth Advocates says that "The minimum wage falls $14,188 short of the basic [annual] cost of living for a family of three in Louisville," including clothes, health care, child care, utilities, and public transportation. "According to the Legislative Research Commission, 21% of Kentuckians are in jobs paying the minimum wage... Families transitioning from welfare to work will not be able to meet necessary, barebones expenses if they secure only minimum wage jobs." (According to Second Harvest, a national food distribution service, forty percent of families using charity to get by have someone working, but find that it is just not enough.)

They go on to estimate that an hourly wage of $12.45 would be necessary to cover the full cost of living for a family of three. How many jobs that pay $12.45 an hour are available to poor people with no degree, little or no training, and bad credit, who can't even get a nice suit for a job interview?

And while millions of Americans have long faced insufficient wages, the problem seems to be worsening for many. In real terms (that is, accounting for inflation), workers have seen their wages decline in recent years, even as corporate profits climb.

As mentioned before, it's hard enough for single mothers to raise their children. How can they be expected to work, too? Child care opportunities just aren't available for everyone. You can't just "go out and get a job" if it means leaving your kids home alone.

Ironically, the conservative politicians who advocate government subsidization for middle-class women to stay home with their children are the same ones who want poor mothers to work, no matter what.

"Burdened Taxpayers"?

While conservatives talk about welfare recipients being a burden on the public, many don't realize how little we spend on public assistance. The attack on social spending is based on myth. In 1996, all spending on "welfare" programs, including food stamps, free school lunches, unemployment checks, housing assistance, legal defense and the rest came to somewhere around $130 billion. Only counting direct assistance programs like AFDC, however, it was about $50 billion -- approximately 4% of the $1.23 trillion budget.

When compared to the whole federal budget, the money spent on welfare is trifling, especially when you look at other, truly wasteful federal budget items. Waste and fraud in military spending have an estimated cost of $172 billion, while a host of business subsidies -- no-strings federal gifts to profitable corporations -- cost another estimated $170 billion in taxes. Then there are capital gains and other tax loopholes benefiting the wealthy that cost over $130 billion a year.

It looks like the "burdened taxpayers" have bigger things to worry about besides welfare.

Dismantling the Safety Net

The above budget figures were effective before the 1995- 1996 legislative frenzy that ripped AFDC and other public assistance to shreds. The individual states are now taking over, kicking people off welfare by the hundreds of thousands. Georgia Representative John Lewis (a prominent figure in the civil rights movement), characterized this "reform" as "heartless, mean-spirited, low-down and dangerous." Under the new standards, my mother and Melanie's (see sidebars) may well have been kicked off long before they could get by on their own. In the new system, said my mom, "I'd be in a world of hurt, because they don't have the financial aid for college that they had before, they don't have special programs to assist single mothers that they had before, the funding has dried up. And I don't know what happens when you tell someone that in two years you're off welfare no matter what -- not allowing for family circumstances, or whether you have a support system."

New York City is using "workfare" programs, where recipients are forced to work in city-run programs. Common sense says that it should be illegal for the government to make poor people work for less than the legal minimum wage, but these programs are being widely lauded in the mainstream media. Workfare participants are deprived of even the most basic labor rights, and must concede to whatever is demanded of them, lest they risk losing their below-subsistence income. And if all goes as planned, hundreds of thousands of people across the country will be put into these programs. This is labor exploitation, plain and simple.

The incredible and ironic thing about this war on the working class is that it is being carried out by politicians who purport to defend "family values." While they talk about family values, they not only push economic interests that result in wage decline and downsizing, but they also tear away what social support systems there are. These policies have the predictable effects of propelling malnutrition, parental neglect, crime, alcoholism and family breakdown amongst working class people. Their "family values" are pretty strange, if you ask me.

It's easy to criticize people on welfare when you haven't been in their shoes. Imagine if your parents were out of work and had to take care of you; how would you feel if someone called your mother a "lazy bum" and wanted to take your grocery money away? Everyone needs a chance to have a future -- not just those who can afford it.

* Aid to Families with Dependent Children -- this is the program most people are thinking of when they think "welfare."

By Leighanne on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 01:54 am:

It seems that all the comments are from people in america. Well i'm a britsh girl of Nigerian Brazillain Parentage. I must agree that being in a multicultrual socity that the white men do actually find dark skinned black women more atrractive and this is evident in my university. However the black guys do tend to go for a light skinned black women regardless if she is pretty or not. On oen instance a couple of black guys was checking out the behind of an evidently black woman, nice body etc, but when she turned around she was not too pretty, but what did the guy say .." what an ugly girl, and a waste of light skin! but i'd date her."
The americans have brought to us via their music videos, why is the leading lady never dark? in fact when do you ever see a dark girl in the videos, the black women are soooo light u cani't even be sure they are black. This may sound that i wish to be light, no because i'm happy with what god gave me, maybe i'd like bigger boobs and a smaller bum but hey.. but i have many dark skinned friends that believe guys will only check foir them if they were light which has caused an increase in buying breching products which have spoilt their skin.
I only hope that people will realsie that beauty is not in the eye of the beholder, it the man, he dictaes what he likes i.e big boobs, women have surgery to boost career, when women learn to love thenselves then it can be projected to others.

By Pat on Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 04:10 am:

I would like to address a few points made by "Anonymous on Wednesday, July 19, 2000 - 07:20 am."

I will address the following statements:

Anonymous Statement:
"Many black women can recall as children an impenetrable desire to possess so-called beautiful qualities i.e., long straight hair. Black people have been brain washed into thinking that the typically European features were beautiful by social standards. This stimulated a desire for a straight nose, smaller lips ,coloured eyes and a definitive bone structure. It appears that European features is an unattainable objective for many black women so they decide to use skin lighteners."

My response:
It may be true that lighter skin may be the norm for beautiful women featured in American films and model advertising, whatever their ethnic background. So there may be something to her argument over light skin given preference to dark skin. However, I believe that African features have become the new idealized beauty. I will elaborate further below.

Anonymous Statement:
"For black women, their physical characteristics do not conform to the ideosyncratic views of beauty....
It is evident that the few black women that are acknowledged as beautiful have light skin, European features or both."

My response:
Some African American women featured in movies and ads do have caucasian features, but many have African features. Although I concede that she has practically white skin and many white traits, the first African American Miss America, Vanessa Williams, has definite African lips and an almost African nose. The good news is that African features, like Vanessa's, is increasingly popular. Just look at the increasing popularity of Africanoid women models. Look at Tyra Banks, Naomi Campbell and Iman. They have African lips and supposedly "white society" finds it to be attractive. As a matter of fact, collagen implants for women with thin lips have increased. I remember in the movie "The First Wives Club," Goldie Hawn's character said to her plastic surgeon in the movie that she wants lips like Tina Turner.

I am not alone in observing this. Larry Elder, a popular radio personality, addressed this subject in his current book, "Ten Things You Can't Say in America." Mr. Elder cited a study that made note that models with very full lips have become the norm in advertisements picturing women models.

I find this subject very interesting. If anyone wants to either debate me or agree with me, I would be delighted to hear from you. I look forward to your e-mails.

Send e-mail to:

hairfanatic@juno.com

By Pat on Wednesday, November 29, 2000 - 04:06 am:

I would like to address a few points made by "Anonymous on Wednesday, July 19, 2000 - 07:20 am."

I will address the following statements:

Anonymous Statement:
"Many black women can recall as children an impenetrable desire to possess so-called beautiful qualities i.e., long straight hair. Black people have been brain washed into thinking that the typically European features were beautiful by social standards. This stimulated a desire for a straight nose, smaller lips ,coloured eyes and a definitive bone structure. It appears that European features is an unattainable objective for many black women so they decide to use skin lighteners."

My response:
It may be true that lighter skin may be the norm for beautiful women featured in American films and model advertising, whatever their ethnic background. So there may be something to her argument over light skin given preference to dark skin. However, I believe that African features have become the new idealized beauty. I will elaborate further below.

Anonymous Statement:
"For black women, their physical characteristics do not conform to the ideosyncratic views of beauty....
It is evident that the few black women that are acknowledged as beautiful have light skin, European features or both."

My response:
Some African American women featured in movies and ads do have caucasian features, but many have African features. Although I concede that she has practically white skin and many white traits, the first African American Miss America, Vanessa Williams, has definite African lips and an almost African nose. The good news is that African features, like Vanessa's, is increasingly popular. Just look at the increasing popularity of Africanoid women models. Look at Tyra Banks, Naomi Campbell and Iman. They have African lips and supposedly "white society" finds it to be attractive. As a matter of fact, collagen implants for women with thin lips have increased. I remember in the movie "The First Wives Club," Goldie Hawn's character said to her plastic surgeon in the movie that she wants lips like Tina Turner.

I am not alone in observing this. Larry Elder, a popular radio personality, addressed this subject in his current book, "Ten Things You Can't Say in America." Mr. Elder cited a study that made note that models with very full lips have become the norm in advertisements picturing women models.

I find this subject very interesting. If anyone wants to either debate me or agree with me, I would be delighted to hear from you. I look forward to your e-mails.

By Ken Park on Monday, November 20, 2000 - 02:46 pm:

Dexter.

I am sorry,but i must disagree,from what i have read,North Africans are also a migrant race.Like the Aryans,they to are a Caucasian,and settled in the Nile Delta,well before the Pharohs arrived.

I must stress that my knowledge is based on western ideology,and most of the historical texts,through out the world are written by Europeans.So we may assume a bias,towards caucasians.I am aware of these facts,but am also in a humble state,maybe there are others that can enlighten us rgd this subject.

All Negroid are of African origin,Nubhian,is a tribe located in northern Iran,and are still in existence,it is Speculated that the NUBIANs(current Somalians and Ethiopians)as mentioned in the Biblicals and Egyptoligst texts are also descendants of the tribe NUBHIANS.

The fact that Nubians had a vast empire along the Nile and it predated the Pharohs,whom were the recipient of the Nubian know how.It is also suspected that the Pharohs to were an Aryan like tribe that descended into Nubian settlements,like did the Aryans whom unsettled the Indus civilzation,current day Tamils.Also note that the Elam tribe in northern Iran,do share a similar lingustic dialect with the Nubhians. ps correct me if i am wrong.

By Dexter on Sunday, November 19, 2000 - 07:28 pm:

I agree with you Ken. Sometimes it's more than just color if a man is attracted to a certain type of woman. But if you like Somalian and Ethiopian women, but not negroid women, then to be honest Somalian and Ethiopian women are negroid women. Why? Africa is a huge continent. Negroid people, according to anthropologists are people who are from (at least historically) of African origin. If these women are from Somalia or Ethiopian then they're black or "Negroid" women. I know many folks think of Black Americans when they mention negroid people. But Black Americans are predominantly of African descent, just like those Somalians and Ethiopians. In fact, Black Americans and Somalians and Ethiopians are also intermingled with many groups. The difference is that more Somalians and Ethiopians have intermingled more with populations eastward (e.g. the Middle East, northern Africa, India/Pakistan [South Asia], Malaysia, etc.) and never were persecuted for 'mixing' with other people, being degraded en masse because of their complexion or for their features or worry about being categorized by the "one-drop theory" that many Black Americans have sustained both then and now.

Even some "Negroid" people in America back then and today have sharp "Caucasoid" features. The reason that many of them are still categorized as Negro or Black is because of the one-drop theory, which implies that if you have at least one black ancestor (or 'one drop' of black blood) then you're henceforth a black person.

By Ken Park on Saturday, November 18, 2000 - 07:49 am:

It's not the color,it's the features,I'm attracted to Somalian and Ethiopian women,but not negroid women,same color,different features.

On a different note,i think fair skinned people of the subcontinent tend to flaunt their sexuality more so than dark skinned people,which makes darker people more erotic and exotic,I find south Indian women more dignified and true to the truth of the typical Indian woman that represents "SITA",which also resembles the ideology of Korean expectations of a woman.As a Korean,an indipendant observer,with keen fascination of the Indian culture, i mean no injustice to anyone.

By Dexter on Monday, November 13, 2000 - 03:46 am:

To Fiz:

I'm sorry that blacks had made fun of you because of your complexion. Whether you're of black African descent or not, people making fun of your skin color is wrong. Whites and Blacks both used names like 'coal-black', 'blue-black', stove-pipe black, 'tar baby', etc. to make fun of those blacks who were dark-skinned. Not to mention also used names like 'redbone', 'high yellow', 'dirty yellow' and 'light-bright-damn near-white to make fun of light-skinned blacks.

It's not right in any case. I really do believe that there is a psychological inferiority complex that generations of both Indians and blacks and maybe others have suffered either due to caste, blatant racial prejudice, European colonialism or all of the above.

Fiz, I do recommend that if the Spike Lee movie "Bamboozled" is playing at theater near your residence, I suggest to watch it. Watch it with someone who can relate to the pain that you've felt. Hopefully, this movie will relate to those who have been degraded by their skin color and hopefully will be bring a solution or at least a discussion that will result in a solution or a resolution.

By now on Thursday, November 09, 2000 - 08:22 pm:

To mfree May 23, 2000 - 06:33 pm:
"Hey Dexter over 50% of ALL homeless are niggers. Additionally 56% of ALL murderers are black, and 34% of all crime is black. I can prove everything I say and make you look like an idiot. You will have to go into a spin mode when I'm done with you. Oh, and there are more niggers on Welfare in total numbers than whites ROTFL"

My reply:
You might want to stop screwing your daughter back in Alabama and quit posting your junk at hindustan(i.e. taking up valuable space), since your White brothers said in the report previously posted by me, "family structure--not race--is the leading indicator of criminal behavior. There is a higher rate of crime among blacks only because their communities have higher rates of illegitimacy and family breakup."


**If you were a good debator, then I don't think you would have put yourself in the position of yourself and the White race being vulnerable with your one sided arguments**

**Looks like you forget to mention to the readers at hindustan about the high rates of incest among Southern White Men and that the vast majority of the drug users in the United States are White!**

**You did not complain that Pakistan produces 70% of the world's heroin**

**Heathrow Airport in England was once known as 'Thieftrow'**

By now on Thursday, November 09, 2000 - 07:59 pm:

I know it's old, but I just had to reply to mfree's misleading argument:

**Take a look at this report**

CRIME
Making America Safer

Robert E. Moffit, Ph.D., and David B. Muhlhausen

http://www.heritage.org/issues/chap12.html

In particular, notice:

FACT: Family structure, not race, is a determining factor of crime.

As explained in Chapter 6, a chaotic broken community stems from broken families. 86 The reason race appears to be an important factor in crime is the prevalence of wide differences in marriage rates among ethnic groups. The evidence simply does not support the view that a criminal's race is causally linked to crime rates. When social scientists control for family structure, the rates for blacks and whites are not significantly different. Rather, research is finding that broken families are related most closely to violent crime, regardless of race. In other words, family structure--not race--is the leading indicator of criminal behavior. There is a higher rate of crime among blacks only because their communities have higher rates of illegitimacy and family breakup. 87

The impact of family structure on crime can be seen in a study of the rates of serious juvenile crime by family background in Wisconsin, the only state to have evaluated this factor to date. (See Chart 12.6.)


**PS: Don't jump to conclusions**

By tels on Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 05:34 am:

Appearance is only skin deep.

By chantelle on Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 05:32 am:

we're all human aren't we?

By Carlan on Saturday, November 04, 2000 - 10:48 pm:

I believe of all of the troubling experiences that are presented to us by the reality of ourselves as we are denoted and known by other people are often times the singular most difficult problem that any of us must contend with. We are what we are mentally and physiologically by powers that lie outside of our control. We come into this life given characteristics and bodily features most of which we cannot alter. We are sometimes caught unawares by physical challenges which make our otherwise wholesome bodies into something ugly and piteous. We are many times made to be the butt of much abuse and ridicule. We are often abased and we are called by many scornful names. We are even hated by people who don't know us at all. The only way that we can keep from falling into the abyss of the forsaken and the lost is to come to grips with our own realities. We can only do this by embracing the thought that God loves us very much. We must pour ourselves into that great God's being that has made each of us. We must reject our own narcissistic self pride and self love. We must live our lives in such a manner as to promote our loving and all-powerful God. We must glory in God's love for us and we must not trouble our spirit with self pity and woeful thoughts. We must live our lives glorifying and deifying God. If we live our lives in this wholesome way our lives will not be grotesque nor horrible but we will live in this world and in God's kingdom beautiful and happy, forever!

By fiz on Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 07:18 pm:

I am a dark black south indian wtth low self esteem. This is because as a child Iwas called all sorts of names regarding my skin tone 'hey look at that kid! aint he black' 'hey you how come your so black' Negroes used to call me names ' hey that indian is so black he's blacker than me! I used to get picked for bieng too black by other blacks.
Is this worst than the name calling received by mullutoes?

By contemplating on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 12:11 am:

i have lived 20 years of my life with pale, sickly looking skin. i never noticed how much i hated it until i started tanning. with a tan i look awesome and i get so much attention from women. to be honest, i am a very handsome looking guy.( with a tan ) without the tan i am scared people won't like me anymore. i have tanned for 4 years now, and at the young age of 24, i am starting to notice fine lines and wrinkles! i am going through a very tough stage in life right now. i cannot stop tanning yet at the same time it is defecting my once smooth flawless face. would you recommend any kind of resurfacing laser surgery or products on the market? please offer some opinions.

By dee on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 12:45 pm:

To Editor and all board:

Please refer to other races with respect. No one is good enough to refer to a race with a derogatory name. For example, mfree's use of the word nigger. That is horrible.

Editor, I urge you to block that word out as you would profanities. That is a degrading and insulting term, that should not be used on this board.

By the way, I'm Indian. But I believe in respect, like a true Indian. No one should think themselves better then anyone in the world.

By Carlan on Tuesday, September 12, 2000 - 11:33 pm:

I’ve learned that most of us when we take a look at ourselves in the mirror like what we see. I have also learned that when we look at ourselves as to the way we feel that we actually are think ourselves quite witty, extraordinarily wise, and very, very reasonable. Most of us if asked what if anything in our own life would we like to change about ourselves if we had the opportunity to change it, we would suggest some benign arbitrary detail like we would wish to be less judgmental or more compassionate. We cannot think that a complete overhaul of our thinking is in order. If you would suggest to us that we need that complete overhaul we would think that you are either crazy, stupid, or jealous, and, we would not listen to another word you had to say to us.

I think that we as human beings are here to judge others! I think we are here to judge all other things, too! It seems to me unnatural to go about in our day-to-day life without making judgments on just about all of the things that we need to deal with. I think it somewhat absurd to think that people should not judge the people that they meet each day or that they see and hear on television (or the internet), or those people that they only read about in newspapers and magazines. Who is there among us that does not privately pronounce judgments on just about everyone of our family members, friends, and neighbors? Who is there that does not sit in their place of worship and not judge the actions, the dress, the words of those people that are there in the same place with us? Not to mention the judgments we make on those people who choose not our particular sanctuary.

As to the aspects of our skin colorings or shadings, or the features of our external bodies, or our cultural and ethnic differences, I think that we must expect that people who are different from us will be making all kinds of true and false judgments about us. And, I think it absurd for us not to think that we are not being judged, rightly or wrongly, by everyone that meets us or hears our name, or comes into contact with people of our same ilk.

Name calling is one of the most hurtful things that can be endured. I am against it. However, name calling is a very harsh way to know exactly what someone thinks about you. That person calling you that name is at least much more honest than those many others out there that are thinking bad things about you but either through fear of retaliation, or through human kindness, or through learning proper social skills, or through lack of courage do not call you that same degrading name.

About the best thing that I learned to do is to go about my day-to-day business with my chin up and my eyes and ears clear. I try to think that people if they got to know me would like me okay and if I got to know them I would like them okay. I look at people and make my normal (to me at least) judgments concerning them (true or untrue). I think they are doing the same thing to me. I hope with all that’s in me that they would like me, but I know that most don’t or that most don’t even know that I exist and most don’t care that I exist or not. Anyway, I try to act and react in what I think is a congenial and civilized manner. I think to myself that most all people that I see are just trying to earn a good living to take care of their families, that they too are faced with sufferings and forebodings of all kinds, that they are hoping to win the lottery to get out of the sad situation that they are in, that they hope that the cancer that they have can be cured, or that their son or daughter is marrying a person that loves them and will care for them when times become hard.

Yes, I think that most people are suffering in their own way and I don’t see any reason for me to add to it by calling them names or by causing them to feel uncomfortable in any way.

By nessa on Tuesday, September 12, 2000 - 09:29 am:

why do people look at us for the shades that we're born with. our society has been made up with accusations and then assumptions. why? that will forever be our question on why we can't pull out our souls and be judged by them. stop all of the name calling and take a good look at yourself.

By anu pandey on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 02:05 am:

I think people are attractive through their positive thinking and values. Human race is one race. We diffrentiated them by black or white. I feel color is a way to identify people that where do they come from or belong to.

By Carlan on Saturday, July 22, 2000 - 11:43 pm:

Karma…I agree that all people struggle to some degree with many wretched things that happen to them over a lifetime. As you say, many children and many adults as well are contending with just staying alive one more day or even another minute. There are very sad stories told in the newspapers everyday about many wretched things like that that are occurring everywhere. I am only here to say that if I can help in that struggle, whatever that struggle may be I will try to help.

Self worth is important, I am not sure how important it may be to any one of us. To you it seems it is very important, to me it has very little value. I think that what others think that I am worth is more valuable to me than what I think I am worth to myself. Our value systems are different is all. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that!

If I offended you in some way when I placed those presidential statistics in my last entry to you, please, accept my apology. I put that in because in my mind I had to calculate that statistic to make my mind understand how enormous the odds are that had to be overcome to actually become president. Wow, I thought, virtually no real chance at all, was there?

It has always been hard for me to decide who are the most pathetic people in the world. I think my difficulty in trying to determine who they were was caused by the fact that I am among them, that is to say, I am pathetic myself. I discovered many years ago that of all of my grand ideas as well as all of my great thoughts all have (over the years) proved worthless and meaningless. So, if that does not define a person as being pathetic, I don’t know what does. But, do you know what, there are a couple of people near me and one away from me that I feel love me very much! And, if it were not for them I would be lost! It’s odd though, they think me simple too but they love me, anyway. Who can tell of people’s taste, huh?

Thank you for your kind comment in the Art Of Living thread! I appreciated it, very much!

By christine on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 07:08 am:

there is beauty in all things and i have known people of many tones intimately to be beautiful why is this even a question there should be no issue on the matter everyone is beautiful ! all colors are beautiful i think the rich dark shades are soo soft and vevety looking yet creamy pale skin is lovely too i love orientals hair it is thick and shiney and hispanics have georgous eyes i am also a full caucas. fem. but there is no reason not to apreciate beauty even if you do not understand the culture and i strive every day to be open and warm to all peoples no matter the shade they may be there is only one race HUMAN RACE!

By Karma on Wednesday, July 19, 2000 - 01:18 pm:

Carlan, as I am a US citizen, I am aware of the fact that we do not have kings and queens. The "king" I referred to is from a well-known children's game that many probably remember, "King of the Hill" where one person, the king, stands atop a hill and all others attempt the climb to defeat the King in hopes to attain nobility and thus sit upon the throne.

Yes, indeed we are taught that we can be whatever we want to be. But, you seem to have forgotten that part where our parents, or at least mine did, spoke these words as well, "...if you put your mind to it". How in the world can you expect another to have all the hopes and dreams of one day becoming President when you continue to pacify and nurture the very thing that is keeping them from accomplishing this feat (a mind of their own, self-worth)?

Yes, our liberal government would have you believe that they are here to HELP not oppress the poor and the unworthy, pathetics of this world. They fail to realize that these people that they are indeed oppressing through the golden arm of nurturing power, do not seek true power. These people want to be taken care of and helped and empowered with these new survival mechanisms, hmmm...roof over the head, food, a little extra cash for the old booze craving gullet. I personally have more respect for those that made it the hard way and have within themselves a confident, self-assured wisdom of knowing the difference without feeling resentment.

This pleases those atop the hill, for they have no true and worthy opponents from the pathetics of this world. They exacerbate the numbers that fall within this category, thus, the more people dependent on the throne holders, the less people there are to attempt the feat of one day sitting upon the throne. Get it?

Why is this necessary? Because, as you agreed with me to begin with, not everybody can be King/President. Also, your statistics on the number of presidents that come and go as compared to the increasing population was a total waste of time, as anyone can grasp this simple concept. But, nice try. :)

Also, you are missing something here. Many people have struggled in their lifetimes, not JUST the needy. And, many people do not always gain prestige through struggle. How about the children of this world who struggle with a disease such as cancer? Are they seeking prestige and wealth? No, they are seeking life...

People, stop this self-sacrificing behavior if you are only seeking wealth and power. You won't be happy once you get there if you don't know the true meaning of self-worth. Self-worth is NOT in how much you own or how much you are respected and admired by others. Self-worth is how much you admire yourself for the struggles that YOU have endured.

By the way, getting back to the dark/light issue and belonging to a group...Carlan, we seem to be forming a group here, thus, your statement that you do not belong to any group must have been made in error. :)

By Anonymous on Wednesday, July 19, 2000 - 11:20 am:

I would just like to say that the issue of skin tone lies fundamentally with dissatisfaction amongst urselves.Subconsciously many black people feel that light skin is more attractive as this has been indoctrinated in their minds over a sustained period of time. Many black women can recall as children an impenetrable desire to possess so-called beautiful qualities i.e , long straight hair. Black people have been brain washed into thinking that the typically European features were beautiful by social standards. This stimulated a desire for a straight nose, smaller lips ,coloured eyes and a definitive bone structure. It appears that European features is an unattainable objective for many black women so they decide to use skin lighteners. I feel that black women in society are the most oppressed. In many situations e.g the working environment ,a woman is judged on her physical attributes. For black women, their physical characteristics do not conform to the ideosyncratic views of beauty. As a light skinned black girl, I find that some other black girls/women automatically perceive me as one who is pompous,arrogant,ignorant e.t.c. This is wholly false as I refrain from thinking I am more beautiful than any other dark skinned girl. I also find that some black men immediately assume that light skinned girls feel they are "too pretty". This is ironic considering that there are many black men who are involved with women that are white,hispanic e.t.c. I personally believe that beauty cannot be defined hence there is no typical standard for beauty. I view both light skinned and dark skinned people in the same way. I find both light skinned and dark skinned men attractive.
As long as we are black,we are susceptible to the same prejudicial,dogmatic views and social injustices. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. If you feel you are beautiful then you are. We are all products of God's creation and I am pretty cretain that it was not his intention to bring forth any favouritism for the lighter shades on the colour bar that is inherent in the film, music and modelling industries. It is evident that the few black women that are acknowledged as beautiful have light skin, European features or both. I sincerely hope that we as a human race can move past this ideology and focus predominantly on one's personal qualities. I hope that future generations will not be indoctrinated with these poisonous idealistic views of beauty in society. We are all individual and if we were to conform to the same standards we would all be the same.

By Carlan on Tuesday, July 18, 2000 - 11:57 pm:

Karma…As to the color thing I am not sure what you mean. I was trying to make a point but failed. My point was if you call any contest a name such as Miss (you inject any adjective you wish here) America, to me it opens the door for racist or bigotry comments. If you call your contest, Miss America well then, it seems to me it tells any one who wants to enter that they must be unmarried and an American to enter. I haven't made up my mind as to whether I'm a racist or not, yet!

In the USA we don’t have kings and queens we have many government leaders and the highest in our land is the President. And, in this country we are taught when very small that anyone can grow up and become a government leader, as well as, President. But, your point is well taken. Not everyone can be President because it is a physical impossibility. In a normal lifespan, 20 presidents come and go, and America nearly doubles its population every 10 to 20 years.

The world could not exist if there only existed hot & cold, up and down, etc.. The world exist as it is because it is a creation made up of every extreme that can be thought and with everything imaginable located between all of those extremes.

I must beg to differ with you on the holding of people’s hands to help them to find their way in life. I think that most people have their hands held for them, especially those that are affluent and wealthy and powerful, already. I think that they are guided every step of the way and are made or even forced to follow a very strict code of conduct dictated to them by their affluent, wealthy, and powerful family ties. How many children of the affluent, the truly wealthy, or the powerful do you think do their own thinking? How many children of these kinds of people do you think could make it in the struggling ghettoes and tenements and low to middle class families of any country in the world? How many of them do you think served as front line machine gunners in previous actual battle? or how many of them will be up front in the next battle?

I do agree that many people including myself are very uncomfortable in anyplace where we know we are not “one of them”. I think you are right that it is more of a tragedy to allow someone in to an organization and then to make them feel that they are not welcomed in. As for myself, I don’t fit in well in many, many places. I don’t belong to and I am not affiliated with any club or organization of any kind anywhere. I only belong to God! I have no private or otherwise agenda accept to let people know of the all encompassing love of God!

I’ve noticed and perhaps you have noticed also that many people who had to struggle through much difficulty and hardship to gain a hard earned place of social respect without any help from anybody are, usually, the same people who are the first to make life miserable or very hard for the people coming behind them. Have you noticed that? I think that many of these so-called no-body-helped-me-so-why-should-I-help-anyone-else people are (without them realizing it) heading for the great wide door of personal destruction. If they do not wake up soon, in a very little while, they will come to a realization that will pass all of their understanding and their beliefs and leave them in the great abyss!

I think I’ll keep my hands out there in the masses for anyone who wants to hold on to them and help guide them if that’s what they want or if they want to grasp on to them just for moral support long enough for them to realize what they can accomplish on their own. Yes, mayhap, that the weaker people will become much weaker by my helping hands, but then again, perhaps, those who gain more strength will be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and one day reach out their hands to help another struggling traveler!

Oh, and if you are one that needs no assistance, so be it! Peace be with you!

By Karma on Tuesday, July 18, 2000 - 01:54 pm:

Carlan, interesting choice of words: Miss Pure White America contest, and the Miss Light Yellow America contest, and the Moderately Red Actors awards, too. We're not racist are we? Hmm, PURE white, LIGHT yellow and MODERATELY Red? You sound a bit defensive, but maybe I am wrong.

Anyway, I have just a few things to point out. First of all, not everyone can be king. Not everyone can even have power and wealth. The world would not exist today if we didn't have up and down, or hot and cold. The same holds true with rich and poor, popular and neglected (if you will indulge me this). This is just plain simple fact. We can't continue to harbor feelings of empathy for all people, enslaved or otherwise. Most choose this path without realizing it, but they need to find this out on their own. You can't hold someone's hand and say, here we go now, watch your step.

People empower themselves only when they have self-worth, which is something you CAN'T give to them. By allowing them to enter a culture in which they don't belong only to have them discover that, guess what...they DON'T BELONG, is more cruel than just not accepting them. Think about that the next time you try to show compassion, and realize that your compassion is just another form of enslaving the weaker people.

These people need the strength from within in order to look out at the world and say, "I am here, now...what do -I- want to do and what do -I- want to get from it"? Not, "Can someone please tell me where I should go and who will accept me into their group....I don't know who -I- am, but I'm sure you can help me with that as well"? Give me a break.

By Carlan on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 10:53 pm:

The living of a lie is not a good plan. However, I think that the most of us live our lives believing in self delusion which is another form of lying.

The “woe is me” person is rejected out-of-hand by most people. However, often times, those “woe is me” people are rejected unfairly and unreasonably by people who do not take into account that individual’s actual circumstance or the circumstances that may be causing the continuous “woe is me” syndrome.

The comfort zone theory is a wonderful theory and if one can realize his or her comfort zone, well, as we all must agree, life is good!

I agree that all people should be encouraged to do all that is possible for them to do. I don’t know that many people would disagree about that, but, I think that if it were up to many so called open-minded people of this world that only certain people would be allowed to occupy certain positions of prestige, power, and wealth. And since these narrow minded people exist everywhere on the globe, the people who may not have the “in” so to speak must fight anyway they can for their own right and for the right of their children to become the prestigious, the powerful, and the wealthy of this world.

I think to belong to a club or an organization that if you do not fulfill the precisely spelled out and posted rules of membership of that club or organization that you should not be allowed to enter. But, if the membership rules of membership are vague or ambiguous than a lot of people should be allowed in if they can show that they are in those gray areas and the club or organization should be made to accept them as members.

I don’t like The Miss Black America contests or the all Black Actors awards in America. If we allow them then I think the government must allow the Miss Pure White America contest, and the Miss Light Yellow America contest, and the Moderately Red Actors awards, too.

Oh, I do believe that people are not accepted in many things because they are just not liked. I think you probably can think of people that you know that were rejected from getting a promotion or an award for no other reason than that their boss or someone in charge of them getting the promotion or the award just didn’t like them. But, of course, that’s life for all of us. No one is immune from that all-pervasive fact of life! The sub-facts of each situation can be argued but it cannot be proven a wrong or an injustice, it is just a cold fact that the people or person in charge of awarding or promoting that in the end their decision is a done deal!

By karma1122 on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 09:19 pm:

Carlan, for purposes of clarifying what I believe to be a "real life" for myself, I give you this: A "real life" is a place of comfort, whether virtual or other, where you can express your views and not have to suffer the "oh whoa is me" way of thinking because somebody didn't like what you had to say.

With that said, the discussion of this suffering that people experience because they are not accepted into a particular culture or group can be remedied quite easily. People should stop trying to be who they're not simply for wanting to be accepted into a group. People should be encouraged to be who they are rather than being told that they are not welcome because they are different, look different, think different or whatever.

In reality, people are not accepted simply because they are not liked. For whatever reason, it doesn't matter. This fact needs to be accepted, no matter how hurtful, for only then can one move on in hopes of finding a place of comfort for themselves wilst being themselves, and not living a damn lie.

By Carlan on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 07:30 pm:

Karma 1122…I’ve often heard people saying to other people that they should get a “real life”. And, I’ve always been intrigued by that particular choice of words. I’m curious to know how one knows when they are living a “real life”. Is living a “real life” that much different from the virtual life or unrealistic life that so many of us seem to be living? Who defines for us what constitutes a “real life”? Is a “real life” one that must fit the parameters or criteria of certain individuals? If we show an interest in something considered mundane and of little interest to some other people does that in itself constitute for us that we may not be living a “real life”?

I’m not so sure that anyone has suggested that we should live in a “perfect” world. I only think that most people want to feel accepted in the world that they find themselves is all. Some people do not know or never experienced that empty feeling of not being accepted in the society in which they find themselves and other people don’t care what other people think of them at all. But, to be rejected in any society under any circumstance is a very tough situation to have to endure for most people.

Moreover, I often think that if people would not take the time to contemplate their own position in the realm of things, that many of the down trodden and enslaved peoples of this world would always be trampled on by those self appointed people that like to trample and enslave other people for their own purposes. Though you think that it is not a worthwhile subject to contemplate for yourself, that in itself does not mean that for some other people it should not be contemplated at all.

By karma1122 on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 - 09:14 pm:

How could anyone even contemplate wanting to be
around others who look, think and act just like
them? This leaves little for contention and thus,
I would most definitely find myself bored and
without a real life.

"Judy, look at my beatiful, new dress", exclaims
Wilma.

"Wow, that is a beautiful, new dress", agrees
Judy.

"I bought it to wear to our favorite restaurant",
Wilma points out.

Wilma twirls around in her beautiful, new dress.

"Well, I won't have to guess or ask which one that
is because my favorite is your favorite", says
Judy.

"Yes, it is...isn't it" agrees Wilma.

Judy giggles.
Wilma giggles just like Judy.

Gag me with a fucking spoon and get off your high
horses. This is not an "ideal" society, it will
never be an "ideal" society, so quit wallowing in
this "I wish I were as pretty as her" or "I wish
my muscles were as tone as his" crap and get the
fuck on with your life. There's alot to live for
other than who looks better than who.

By Carlan on Tuesday, July 11, 2000 - 03:20 pm:

In the U.S. it would be untruthful of me not to agree with much of what you say in your commentary. I do think that in all societies of the world that people are more than is likely to like the general appearances of those other people whom more closely resemble themselves. That is, they would like it better if not only their skin was the same color and shade but they would like it if all people’s entire anatomy in every way were the same, too. They would prefer that their minds would think the same, also, and that everything about them were the same as they were. Actually, this trait in most people (the wanting of look and think alikeness) is not all that unusual nor is it a wrong for people to think like that.

Those of us whom do not conform exactly to the expected “norm” in any particular part of the world will and do find life much more difficult to deal with. However, we are not alone! In point of fact, we are the real majority! We are the majority because we are made up of most (if not nearly all) of the people you look at and work with each day. We are people who are of different skin pigments, and we are made up of people who have deformities of all kinds, people who are too tall, or too short or too fat or too skinny or have wrong color of eyes or too big of noses or small of foreheads or too big of ears, too long of chin, baldness, too many freckles, too many pimples, et cetera. We are made up of various ethnic backgrounds that are too many to name. Our religious and political views are too very different from what might be considered the expected “norm” which of course make us often to think differently about things.

In the U.S. there does exist a stereotypical American male, female, and child, which are marched in front of us all nearly every single minute of every single day. We are brainwashed, all of our lives, into accepting these paraded examples as to be the epitome of what a real American citizen should look like and act like. And, most Americans see themselves as not only looking very much like them but actually believe that they are the perfect example of what it is to be a real, honest to goodness, American. When in reality, most Americans no more look like or act like or think like those stereotypical robots at all!

When was the last time you looked around yourself and saw those good looking, well groomed, best dressed, well behaved people (white, black, yellow, brown) that you see on the cover of those fashionable magazines or at the movie houses? Or when was the last time you saw anybody in person that even remotely resembled those people we see on our TV newscasts, or on those bright and cheery early morning talk shows? If America had to depend on those stereotypical magazine-movie blockbuster-TV personalities types to do the real work that must be done in America every single minute of every single day I’m afraid the U.S. as we know it to be today would not be in existence at all.

It is always good to think that you are beautiful or to think that other people think that you are beautiful is okay too, but it is best not to consider beauty at all in those terms. It is best to know what you think is beautiful is the only real beauty and it is very good to know that even that beauty for what that beauty represents to you, personally.

I like to look at those beautiful people wherever I see them, but I know that I wasn’t born to have that beautiful face or that beautiful mystic or that beautiful form but I know too I am here to admire those beautiful things and I know that most superficial beauty fades and dies over time and I know that more beautiful objects are soon on the way to take their place. I love that which is beautiful to me and I love what beauty does to me and I love beauty for what it represents to me. But, beauty is only one aspect of my life and that many other aspects of my life play a much more important role.

Friendship is one aspect of life that I cherish above beauty any day of the week!

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 09, 2000 - 04:26 pm:

I beleive a person's persona reveals their beauty, but in this color struck society it is seen every where, whether you agree or not fair skin is perecived as beautil for women any way. Long hair, light or white skin is the in thing. It's on tv shows, movies, commercial, music videos, it in your city, in your local mall. For instance a group of black women could be shopping 1 women is light the other dark the light skin women is always apporached. I've seen it with my own eyes and the lighter you are the better and you don't even have to been decent looking.

I see it everyday and yeah their are dark skin Miss Americas or what have you, but that is not based on beauty alone. Are nation says loud and clear if your not light or white your not a preferred type.

I'm a black female of mixed heritage my father is black my mother brown skin Costa Rican. My parents tell me what I am. I have the best of both cultures, but my parents say remember no matter what your background is the world see's you as black.

No I'm not light skin with good hair. I look like a black person. No, not every mixed person of African American descent is going to pop out with light skin, long hair, straight hair or wavy hair.


But I say only because I see it everyday fair skin is more attractive, but I beg to differ. Because I am beautiful. No matter if your skin is dark Black, Asian, Spanish or whatever love yourself not your skin.

By Carlan on Monday, July 03, 2000 - 02:30 pm:

Indian…the problem that I find in answering a direct question like your question is to me is that I cannot tell if the person asking the question is seriously considering my answer or is facetiously making fun of me. If you are making a serious enquiry, I would answer you by saying that you flatter me too much. That I am (as many people have told me before) a person with too much time on his hand and not much of a life to speak of. I am really only an echo of people who have lived in our past history. I never say anything that was not spoken by real sages thousands of years ago. That is not to say, that I repeat their wisdom accurately or that that they speak through me. I express my own opinion and my opinion does not count for very much, usually. If you would know me for the person that I really am, you would discover that I am very ordinary and not all that intelligent or wise.

Now, if you are being facetious, I would only say that, no, I’m not the resident sage here. I’m a fellow traveler trying to get along in this world and only doing a fair job of staying a few feet from the edge of oblivion.

Either way, thanks for asking!

By Indian on Monday, July 03, 2000 - 01:57 am:

Carlan are you the resident sage??

By Ruchi on Tuesday, June 20, 2000 - 06:25 am:

Darker or fair skin just not the things to make a
person more attractive . It is the overall personality
which makes a person attractive or not However it may
contribute a little or for a short time .

By Carlan on Sunday, May 28, 2000 - 01:53 pm:

In any discussion such as the one Dexter and mfree find themselves, there are many things that both parties point out with some merit attached to their arguments. I won’t go into them. Both people have their own way of arguing which conforms to the exact way many of us discuss many highly explosive controversial issues such as: White versus Black, Moslem versus Christians, Democracy versus Socialism, rich versus poor, pro-life versus abortionist, anti guns versus pro guns, et cetera. Our two participants have briefly shown us, historically, the same scenario that has stifled real change in any one of these types of arguments since time everlasting.

The problem is not with either participants arguments or how they choose to argue their points, the problem goes much deeper than that. The main problem lies deeply in bedded in the belly of each participant. Both participants are in two modes of thought at the same time. One mode is “attack”, the other is “defend”! And, as in war when both parties are both attacking and defending, at the same time, the war itself is never won by either party and the war is indefinitely prolonged.

If neither mfree or Dexter are willing to accept that the other person may have some valid points to their arguments and if Dexter or mfree are not able for one reason or another to express their willingness to accept some points that the other person has validated with some found fact, then, this particular argument should be concluded without another word.

To fill page after page with argumentive rhetoric, as Dexter says, will do none of us any lasting good, however, I believe a “good” has been served in that we, no matter how hard we try, cannot become completely objective in any real (in the belly) controversial discussion of this type. We are humans and not machines and as humans we feel and see not only with our hands and our eyes but with our hearts and our souls!

By Dexter on Saturday, May 27, 2000 - 03:18 pm:

Look, the bottom line is that I've proved that blacks aren't stupid or what you called "the dumbest things on two legs." By the way, the ancient pre-Columbian Mayans discovered rubber not Europeans. They might have manufactured it, but they didn't invent it. And every race, civilization and group had at least some type of calendar, clock or other device to measure time and days. There is a book by conservative award-winning author Richard Poe called "Black Spark White Fire" about the connections and interminglings between Africa, Europe and the Near East.

Now you can keep on doing that tit-for-tat if you want to: "The gas mask wouldn't have been made if not for the rubber and blah, blah, blah." I could say that the Europeans wouldn't have guns without gunpowder, which the Chinese had first. If you have a problem acknowledging the contributions of people of color, then that's not my problem.

The bottom line is despite not arriving voluntarily to America, faced lynchings, and suffering from segregation, African Americans have come a long way. My reason for adding Dr. Charles Drew's contribution is to also show that racism also hits light-skinned blacks as well as dark-skinned blacks. Hate, just like love, knows no boundaries.

And the examples that I mentioned from my last posting would never had come into fruition if Blacks didn't make it happen, because if blacks actually were "the dumbest things on two legs," then those inventions of plasma, gas mask, traffic lights and the amazing aviating skills of the Tuskegee Airmen would never occured.

Carlan, I did my best. But if this discussion continues to become a "my race is better than yours" contest, then it won't go anywhere to benefit anyone.

By mfree on Saturday, May 27, 2000 - 12:34 am:

Hey Dexter, did you know that niggers are MORE likely than whites to commit a hate-crime per capita? Did you know that niggers kill whites by better than a 2-1 ration? Mental inferiority explains disparity better than all the easily exploded black excuses, it's known as Occam's Razor, the simplest and most direct answer that fits the facts is the logical one to be selected.

By mfree on Saturday, May 27, 2000 - 12:25 am:

Check this out, niggers are bloodthirsty killers.
Niggers were 7 times more likely than whites to commit homicide in 1998 The skin colour canard is just that. We do not fear a dark skinned italian as we do a lighter skin jig, because we know the nigger is by nature violent and stupid.

By mfree on Saturday, May 27, 2000 - 12:19 am:

"Garrett Morgan--
African American scientist who not only invented the traffic light, but also the gas mask." Could not have happened unless electricity and rubber had not been discovered by whites. The Tuskegee Airmen-- could not have occured without the invention of the airplane by whites. Dr. Charles Drew-- did not discover plasma. Niggers were found in Africa by every explorer to have had a remarkable poverty of development. No black African society had a written language or a calendar.
None used the wheel or practiced joinery or built multi-story buildings. Iron smelting was common but no black Africans built what could be called a mechanical device, even one so simple as a hinge. Africans apparently tamed no animals themselves but
received already-domesticated dogs and cattle from north of the Sahara. None used any beast of burden, despite the presence of large mammals that could have been tamed. Hey dexter Neanderthal had the wheel. Look at the asinine things niggers claim. Nigger inventions William Purvis invented the fountain pen, hahahahahahahahahahahaha Lewis Waterman's patent predates him. Afrocentrism is a croc of jig bullshit.

By mfree on Saturday, May 27, 2000 - 12:07 am:

And now the spin. Not ONE important invention has ever originated from blacks, not one. All the black inventions you cite are through the euro construct, not the afrocentric construct. Name one successful black run country in the world. P.S. try not to blame whites for everything that is borne of the negro low intelligence. What do you think of the homeless stats, LOL?

By Dexter on Friday, May 26, 2000 - 11:01 pm:

"Economics have nothing to do with nigger problems, it is their chronic low intelligen[ce]. . .In short niggers are the dumbest things on 2 legs."

Mfree, I hope you've brought some kryptonite.

Statistics or no statistics, many racists have done their own style of "spinning" to prove that Blacks are supposedly "the dumbest things on 2 legs." Whether or not blacks were denied because they weren't considered entitled to be treated as fellow citizens or was used as a way to prove some myth of inborn inferiority, every time that blacks on the whole were thought of as unintelligent, it was always proven false every time.

I could list many instances that blacks that were considered not intelligent enough for this or that later proved their critics wrong, but I'll just narrow it down to 3 contributors.

Garrett Morgan--
African American scientist who not only invented the traffic light, but also the gas mask. Now during World Wars I and II, many lives of blacks soldiers (like their civilian counterparts today) were considered cheap and lack of worth. Many died in the hospital at the hands of American doctors and nurses. Not because they were severely injured, but because these doctors' and nurses' racial prejudices refused to give aid to their black patients, thus some of those black soldiers died of lack of care.

The gas mask was developed to withstand the mustard gas attacks by the Central Powers of WWI. Now many Allied soldiers survived the gas attacks by the aid of the these gas masks. But some white soldiers died in the gas attacks because they refused to use a gas mask once it was revealed that a black man developed it.

Dr. Charles Drew--
An African American doctor who did research in blood plasma. According to the World Book Encyclopedia, "Previously, whole blood had been used for such transfusions. Plasma [the liquid part of blood] can be stored for long periods. But at the time that Drew conducted his research, whole blood could not be kept for more than a week. Also unlike whole blood, plasma can be given to a person of any blood type." It saved millions of Allied lives in WW2.

But like the gas mask, some white soldiers jeopardized their own lives by refusing to accept plasma because of racial prejudice that made them to not accept anything from blacks. The ironic tragedy about this is that Dr. Drew later died in 1950 due to injuries from a car accident. He needed a blood transfusion. But he was refused care by doctors because he was black. Due to segregation, there weren't any black nurses available at the hospital to care for Drew at the time of his accident, and the only "colored" hospital that treated minorities was out of town. As a result, Drew was pronounced DOA there. Furthermore, if you see a picture of Dr. Charles Drew, he doesn't have very black features. He's light-complexioned. Plus, he looks like Jason Alexander (George Contanza of "Seinfeld"). Even someone of his light complexion could be denied care due to heinous racism.

The Tuskegee Airmen--
The pilots were incredible. At a time of segregation when blacks were refused pilot's licenses because they were considered not intelligent enough and "the dumbest things on two legs," Tuskegee Institute in Alabama had an aviator experiment to prove that false.

Over 900 black pilots were trained at Tuskegee. Some were known as the 99th Fighter Squadron and in the 332nd Fighter Group. Now the planes that were used at Tuskegee were substandard compared to the newer models used in the Army Air Corps.

But despite the odds, the Tuskegee Airmen flown over 1578 missions and not only they destroyed over 1,000 German aircraft, but they NEVER lost a bomber while in combat--a perfect and unprecedented record in aviator history. It hasn't been done before or since then. As a matter of fact, some of the German aircraft destroyed by the Tuskegee Airmen were the early prototypes of fighter jets.

And in case you think I'm spinning or lying, please check out AirForceLINK, www.blackaviation.com/ and www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/prewwii/

Dumbest things on two legs??? I beg to differ.

By mfree on Friday, May 26, 2000 - 04:59 pm:

The first thing you encounter with pea brained niggers and their apologists is denial. They deny the stats, then when they are presented they start to spin. It is really an amusing endeavor in stupidity. There is not one jig argument that makes any sense. Niggers were economically worse off 35 years ago than they are today, yet their crime is worse today. Economics have nothing to do with nigger problems, it is their chronic low intelligent, and that extrapolates into their crime, violence, low academics, and illegitimacy rates. In short niggers are the dumbest things on 2 legs.

By mfree on Friday, May 26, 2000 - 04:12 pm:

Carlan OK

By Carlan on Friday, May 26, 2000 - 01:20 am:

You are welcome, mfree. But, I want to state something which I think is important and that is: in any discussion that I care to take a part in, I do not want anyone to be made to feel that they must be "congenial" or that they must be careful of their speech when trying to express their feelings on a particular subject. If, in order to make yourself and your views better understood, please use whatever phrasing you feel you need to use to add the desired degree of your intent and your purposes. These are only my views, however, the web site provider may have a differing view point. I would prefer that all offensive language be scuttled, whenever possible, and a more politically acceptable word or phrase be used in its place.

I am looking forward to seeing many more discussions between two such strong willed people as you and Dexter are. I know I will learn and that is what I'm doing here, I'm learning!

By mfree on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 03:22 pm:

Thank you Carlan, I will try to be more congenial, and apologize for any previous profanities.

By Carlan on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 08:43 am:

Both intelligence and ignorance must share the blame equally when it comes to causing destruction and untold misery to rampage across our world. One is thought to be more sophisticated the other more moronic (you determine which is which), but, both have historically caused mankind to suffer untold heartache and grief and continues to do so to this very day.

Mfree has done some research and he or she has put his/her findings before us. We must consider the points of these findings. We cannot deny what is pointed out to us. We cannot pretend that what is shown to us does not exist. We can refute his or her statistics if we can find those statistics that will disprove what was presented or if statistics can be found to prove another view point, but, we cannot and should not deny that the statistics presented to us do not exist or that they are untrue if we cannot find the validated statistics to prove that they do not exist or that they are untrue. Mfree deserves to be listened to with respect the same respect as the rest of us deserve.

I am not a statistical person. That is, statistics and studies are not what interest me. What interest me is how can I make life's experiences better for people, that is, all people everywhere. Statistics and studies, though very helpful to accomplish many things that must be accomplished in this world, they still are not what helps to get people to like one another or to even like themselves for that matter. We can challenge each other and hurl dispersions upon each other but what good will come of doing or saying those things. No one wins in a name calling contest!

I sometimes wonder what if my mother or father or my girlfriend or boyfriend or my wife or husband or my son or daughter or my brother or sister or my best friend in the whole world or even myself would become desperately ill and it was determined that the only way to preserve their life or mine was by obtaining a blood transfusion or a transplant from those very same people whom I so passionately hate. I wonder what I would think or do, then?

The original discussion had to do with whether or not dark or fair skin was more attractive. At this juncture, I believe it would be a fair assessment to say that attractiveness is sometimes based wholly on the color of the skin in some people's mind but not so in all people's minds. Attractiveness is an individual's preference and is a known quality which is judged by that particular individual to attract them to another individual. Attractiveness or unattractiveness are ambiguous words, and as are all ambiguous words cannot be defined absolutely. If a person wants to believe that there does not exist any attractive purple people in the galaxy, so be it. It serves no useful purpose to try to force that person to accept another person's taste in who is an attractive person, or for that matter, who is an unattractive person. We like what we like, and we don't like what we don't like, who would care to argue with that ancient sophistry of life?

By mfree on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 11:37 pm:

Here you go Dexter you lying piece of shit. http://nch.ari.net/who.html "ETHNICITY:

In its 1998 survey of 30 cities, the U.S. Conference of Mayor found that the
homeless population was 49% African-American, 32% Caucasian, 12% Hispanic,
4% Native American, and 3% Asian (U.S. Conference of Mayors, 1998). NEXT!!!!!! LOL

By mfree on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 11:33 pm:

Hey Dexter over 50% of ALL homeless are niggers. Additionally 56% of ALL murderers are black, and 34% of all crime is black. I can prove everything I say and make you look like an idiot. You will have to go into a spin mode when I'm done with you. Oh, and there are more niggers on Welfare in total numbers than whites ROTFL

By Dexter on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 10:22 pm:

Well, it looks like someone has just exposed his/her "superiority" (or lack of it).

If African-descended or black people (or as n-----s as mfree prefers) are in his mind responsible for 100% of all the crimes and murders of America (despite making 13% of the US population), could mfree explain why most of the homeless are white? Why are most people on welfare in America are white?

If blacks are so expected to fail, despite being given every obstacle in the US (in order to fail), why are so many white males (who are in power and supposedly "superior") are giving up and shooting up and/or blowing up everything in their way when they realize that they're not as superior as they thought they are (e.g. the Unibomber at airports, school shootings in Jonesboro and Columbine, and Tim McVeigh at Oklahoma City)? These individuals has shown more ignorance, more deviancy and more degenerate behavior in their actions than the so-called n-----s that you've mentioned. It's time to pick up a library book.

This discussion is about does fair or dark skin makes a person more or less attractive. Although, mfree had a field day using the N word in his comments, at least future readers will know that having fair or dark skin doesn't make a person more or less INTELLIGENT.

By mfree on Monday, May 22, 2000 - 03:07 pm:

And the government has recognized this mental inferiority of niggers by virtue of all the programs, race norming, AA, etc. that have failed to close the intellectual gap. Niggers are socialists, they must have the govt. norm their deficiencies. Niggers do not want a merit based society, and equate all disparity as bias. 60% of negro teachers fail their teacher competency exams, rather than study harder, they file class action bias suits. The NCAA did away with academic standards because they are bias towards blacks, and you know something, they're right, academic standards ARE biased toward blacks.

By mfree on Monday, May 22, 2000 - 02:41 pm:

I don't have to modify a damned thing. And the person that wants to know what a nigger is, is naive. I freely use the word because it is my right. Niggers are the major source of crime and ignorance in this country, their culture is steeped in ignorance. The average nigger IQ is 85, Koko the signing gorilla has a higher IQ. The average spearchucker in Africa's IQ is 70, borderline retardation. Niggers perpetuate their ignorance through their degenerate culture, eg ebonics, 68% ilegitimacy rates, lowest academic standing amoung every group. It cannot be expected that niggers can succeed with such low intelligence. Low intelligence is the root to all nigger problems.

By Carlan on Monday, May 15, 2000 - 12:19 am:

The person mfree reiterates the mindset of many other like thinking people. They remind all of us whom have had to endure name calling sometime in our lives that these types of people still exist and will not go away, soon. I also use to call people hateful names. I was a child and perhaps mfree is a child too. If mfree is a child I hope you soon learn that name calling is uncool and as has been pointed out to you, by dexter, is unnecessary in adult conversation. However, if mfree is an adult, well, we will need to adjust to their thinking somewhat, i.e., the rest of us must try to understand the mind of a mfree person. I am thinking that we can learn a great deal from such a person. I think that as dexter suggested that this particular discussion is not a suitable forum. So, if mfree would take the initiative and create a discussion thread dedicated to presenting their view of name calling and the usefulness of name calling, I for one would be glad to discuss such things with them.

(It is strange how quiet the darkness becomes when a hate filled person finds themselves alone and the only slithering thing that they can hear is the tail of the beast as it approaches with the claws of justice and the vacant eye holes of frightening truth.)

By Dexter on Sunday, May 14, 2000 - 12:39 am:

This is getting ridiculous here. If you can't say anything respectful, then don't bother to say anything at all. This is a topic discussion about if whether dark skin or light skin makes a person beautiful in the world. The racial slurs aren't needed here!

Of course, having darker skin will make a person stand out in a crowd of lighter-skinned people, and a light-skinned person will stand out in a crowd of dark-skinned person. But it takes more than just melanin (or lack of it) to be considered beautiful to a person's eyes. It has to do with attitude and how you carry yourself. If you wholeheartedly believe that you're a good-looking person, many people will believe that.

Now recently, many folks have had expressed their prejudices about skin color. Now people are entitled to their own opinion. But to say that darker skin (i.e. people of color) will always be unattractive compared to lighter-skinned people is insane.

Take for example, the Miss Universe beauty pageant.

Although Sweden is known to have some of the most beautiful women in the world, the last seven winners of the Miss Universe pageant have been women of color. In 1994, Miss Universe was Ms. Sushmita Sen of India. Miss USA's of 1995 and 1997 also have won the Miss Universe crowns in their respective years. Last night, Ms. Lara Dutta (Miss India 2000) won the crown of Miss Universe 2000 (Congratulations to her). She was crowned by last year's Miss Universe, Ms. Mpule Kwelagobe of Botswana, Africa--a dark skinned black woman. And before her, another black woman from Trinidad won the Miss Universe crown in 1998. So who's to say that dark skin is always ugly to light skin?

(By the way, to whoever said the racial remark, I want to know what is their definition of that word n-----)? And what's their nationality/ethnicity?

Now some will agree with me, some won't. But whatever the opinion, please say it without profanity and the racial/ethnic slurs! There's a thin line between giving an opinion and showing your ignorance.

By mfree on Friday, May 12, 2000 - 10:23 pm:

its not the color of your skin it's everything that goes with being a nigger. we would sooner fear a light skinned black rather than a dark skinned italian because we know that the nigger is more violent by nature.

By DLP on Friday, May 12, 2000 - 06:35 pm:

I am a portrait artist and I am endlessly amazed at the beauty and variety of the human family. I never miss getting an exact likeness of the individual I am drawing. The most important physical characteristic to me is the underlying bone structure. That's where the beauty is found. Skin color is descriptive, but not relevant to the issue of whether or not the individual is beautiful.

By Carlan on Sunday, April 30, 2000 - 01:25 pm:

This topic like all other topics are only interesting to those people who have some desire or notion about the subject matter. The intrinsic value obtained holds only to the participants and to the various interested parties. All topics once introduced are petitioned by persons interested in that subject matter if you are not interested that is your privilege and you can either post your own topic or you can move on to another area of more interest. What you choose to do is your own prerogative. Of course, we would appreciate any reasons why you think as you do.

Any man or woman who suggest that beauty exist only in one race or ethnic heritage is someone who has not seen much of what this world has to offer. There are beautiful people in every race and of every ethnic back ground. Just as there are ugly people in every race and of every ethnic background. The overwhelming majority of people everywhere are neither particularly pretty or singularly ugly but we are found everywhere in between.

It would be interesting to know just how beautiful some people really are who make asinine and bigoted statements such as,’ there are no beautiful black women or men’. I have found that people who say such insensitive things like this are themselves quite unattractive and very unsure of there own masculinity or their own femininity, and could not make the centerfold (if they had one) of either Mad magazine or popular mechanics even if that person were given a complete thousand dollar makeover.

If you want to make general statements of what you believe to be true that is your right, but, be careful that in doing so that you don’t show us too much of how ignorant, unsophisticated and insensitive you really are!

By andy on Sunday, April 23, 2000 - 07:05 am:

clearly reallyndark skin is seen throughout thew world has ugly. How many models, actresses, good looking women do you see who are pitch black. i am surprised anyone would question it and even post a topic on it

By Martha on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 06:36 am:

This discussion is assinine!

By Carlan on Sunday, February 20, 2000 - 01:43 am:

Our exteriors as well as our distinctive body features determine to a very large degree our place and our personal treatment in any society. The environment into which we find ourselves will dictate to us where we shall be allowed to reside in that society. The government will cast a deciding vote as to what our rights and privileges shall be. Our neighbors will place what burdens they choose to place on our multicolored or colorless backs, and moreover, they will remove what burdens they choose from off of our backs, when they see fit to do so.

With all else being equal, the color of your skin, the prettiness of your face, the slant of your eyes, the narrowness of your nose, the thickness of your lips, the bigness of your mouth, the broadness of your buttocks, et cetera, will help or hurt you in determining everything from your life's occupation to the personal treatment you will receive throughout your life.

The local culture will dictate to you to a very large degree what shall be accepted as to beauty, décor, and attitude of its citizenry. If you do not fulfill that accepted cultural theme, you will need to expect a cold shoulder and an unwillingness of your neighbors to accept you as a peer. The culture into which you find yourself will also determine what is the "accepted standard" for beauty, intelligence, leadership, and attitude. Again, if you cannot fulfill these "accepted standards" your tolerance to hold in inner pain as well as your ability to restrain yourself from striking out will be tested, time and again.

Should you strike out? Certainly, if you think it your right as a human being to do so. But, even though you win and force a culture to accept you, that win in itself will not bring you any great satisfaction or happiness. In the end, you will know that under the law you must be accepted but you also will know that that culture still thinks you are beneath their kind consideration and your feelings of inadequacy will persist.

There is great hurt in this life but the hurt suffered by one because of one not being accepted in a culture in which one finds one's self is very, very bad, indeed. And conversely, no greater joy is felt by one than when one feels, without an ounce of legal coercion being applied, that he or she is accepted as a compeer in the society in which one lives!

In this life, neither, are any of us born equal in all circumstances, nor, are any of us accepted as totally equal in the culture of which we do reside, however, in the realm of God, each one of us, no matter our exterior or our condition, are equal in every way and very much accepted and fondly loved as we are!

By Anonymous on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 06:23 pm:

It is not dark skin or pale skin which makes somebody unattractive.It is the features.

By Editor on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 06:39 am:

This world of human beings has all colors of skins from pale onion white to almost pinkish to the brown to the very dark brown. In reality there is no such color as WHITE or BLACK. It is our color blindness and our inability to distinguish among colors that we label entire races as White or Black.

Among so called White races, most are of either pale or a quasi pink or light weatish complexion. Among the so called black races, most are brown or dark brown or strong tanned complexion.

Does darker or fairer skin or the color of your hide, make you more or less attractive?